Are narcissists always manipulative?

[Giggly]

[MENTION=6877]Marmotini[/MENTION] made a comment in a post about this and it made me wonder if they are.

I actually don't think they are all manipulative. I think some are and some aren't.

 

[Giggly]

Another question:

Which do you think is worse: a manipulative narcissist or an oblivious narcissist?

 

[Thalassa]

Narcissists are manipulative by their nature.

He or she is exploitative towards others and takes advantage of them

Read more: http://www.minddisorders.com/Kau-Nu/Narcissistic-personality-disorder.html#ixzz2QP5FICit


I think you may be using the word "narcissist" colloquially, like in the sense of a person who seems cocky or overly proud, but I mean narcissist in the sense of someone who has a personality disorder, or verges on one.

There are narcissists who rely more on manipulation than others, of course. But they're manipulative, deceitful people. Narcissism is a Cluster B personality disorder that's specifically related to inter-relational issues. All relationships require some degree of manipulation (all people are manipulative to some degree because we all want or need things from others) and people with Cluster B disorders take social manipulation to a whole other level, of course it's because of things that happened to them in their childhood usually, and they learned these things to survive their early lives.

 

[Bad Horse]

I actually don't think they are all manipulative. I think some are and some aren't.

If you're referring to NPD, then yes. The pathology states that they surround themselves with people that feed their sense of grandiosity and when the plebs revolt they discard them without further adieu.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

I'm not sure who qualifies as narcistic, but I think some are manipulative and some not. Some people show a bit of narcistic tendencies but are very generous both financially and socially. I think about a billion people on this planet show many of the narcistic tendencies, but I also think a category of people isn't very useful when applied to that many individuals.. at least when there's such a stigma to being narcistic.

Other than that, I've mostly associated real narcissism to being manipulative. I don't know why except to that "my experience says so". Well, now that I think of it, some people with no reasons at all to think of themselves highly have indeed thought of themselves highly, bordering on narcistic, but they haven't tried to manipulate much. Just to show off.

So, I'd say, I don't know. Or, I'm not sure.

 

[HongDou]

Narcissists are manipulative by their nature.

I think you may be using the word "narcissist" colloquially, like in the sense of a person who seems cocky or overly proud, but I mean narcissist in the sense of someone who has a personality disorder, or verges on one.

^Yes. If we're talking about NPD I'd say yes because it's literally in their nature to be manipulative. But if we're talking about the generalized term then I'd say not always. From what I've witnessed, a lot of what contributes to their inflated ego is just their own view of themselves and how they rationalize reactions from the outside world. Just speculating though.

Which do you think is worse: a manipulative narcissist or an oblivious narcissist?

Well you could have a narcissist who is oblivious to the fact that he's manipulative since you can be unconsciously manipulative, can't you? Or you could be a manipulative person who's oblivious to the fact that you're a narcissist. But if it's a manipulative (consciously) narcissistic person vs. a unconsciously narcissistic person, I would say the manipulative one is worse. Using people is a no-no.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Narcissists don't see other people as fully human, but more as objects from which to gain their desires or needs. In this way they would almost have to manipulate in order to interact, since they can't identify with other people, have empathy, or a sincere connection. They would manipulate people in the same way they would manipulate an object.

 

[Giggly]

Thank you everyone for thoughts. I'm still trying to process this.

I'm not sure who qualifies as narcistic, but I think some are manipulative and some not. Some people show a bit of narcistic tendencies but are very generous both financially and socially. I think about a billion people on this planet show many of the narcistic tendencies, but I also think a category of people isn't very useful when applied to that many individuals.. at least when there's such a stigma to being narcistic.

Other than that, I've mostly associated real narcissism to being manipulative. I don't know why except to that "my experience says so". Well, now that I think of it, some people with no reasons at all to think of themselves highly have indeed thought of themselves highly, bordering on narcistic, but they haven't tried to manipulate much. Just to show off.

So, I'd say, I don't know. Or, I'm not sure.

Me neither still. haha

These are also my thoughts.

 

[Thalassa]

^Yes. If we're talking about NPD I'd say yes because it's literally in their nature to be manipulative. But if we're talking about the generalized term then I'd say not always. From what I've witnessed, a lot of what contributes to their inflated ego is just their own view of themselves and how they rationalize reactions from the outside world. Just speculating though.

Yeah anyone with NPD is manipulative because they have to evoke the response that earns them praise and adulation, they are typically extremely well-groomed or well-dressed people who are sometimes good looking, but sometimes just think they're better looking than they are because of the amount of effort they put into it. Even this is a form of manipulation. This form of manipulation is shared by histrionics, usually.

But unlike the person with BPD (I'm going to kill myself or throw your cat off the balcony if you leave me) the narcissist manipulates in a more subtle and ugly way, in my experience. They create a dynamic where they can feed off a kind of "yes man" sort of friend or buddy or relative, until the "yes man" gets wise to how much energy they're expending on the NPD's ego.

People with NPD also tend to climb either socially or financially (or both) because they only feel validated by externals, so that is also requiring a form of manipulation to pull that off.

People who are narcissistic in the colloquial sense may just be stupid and cocky, usually young, or they may appear to need attention ...and actually be histrionic or some kind of drama queen. People may call any attention seeking behavior narcissistic, or any kind of seemingly inflated level of confidence, but a true narcissist is so divorced from his or her TRUE feelings (actually being a deeply insecure individual) that they cannot form real empathy for others, making even their love relationship some kind of warped mirror, and if they realize that the love interest or partner is not the person in the mirror, they will punish them or reject them, they can't love you unless you're an extension of them or do what they want.

 

[JAVO]

Why do you keep making these threads about me?




kidding

 

[Ginkgo]

I once saw a narcissist breastfeed a flamingo back to health.

 

[Thalassa]

Narcissists don't see other people as fully human, but more as objects from which to gain their desires or needs. In this way they would almost have to manipulate in order to interact, since they can't identify with other people, have empathy, or a sincere connection. They would manipulate people in the same way they would manipulate an object.

Basically. And if the object is no longer useful, they might just drop it. Like "oh okay done with you."

 

[Z Buck McFate]

On Everyday Narcissism; a blog post about narcissism by a psychotherapist blogger I like.

[ETA] And here's probably the most relevant clip from that link:

As with most psychological phenomena, I believe it makes sense to talk about narcissism along a spectrum: in other words, the grandiosity and need for admiration characteristic of pathological narcissism form a milder, less dominant part of primary narcissism (Heinz Kohut has a lot to say on this subject, in case you’re interested). To a certain extent, the desire to be noticed, admired and respected by others is a type of narcissism, an everyday narcissism that doesn’t interfere with our ability to notice, admire and respect other people, and to have meaningful relationships with them. Only when that desire eclipses everything else do we enter the territory of pathological narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder.​

 

[Society]

The good ones manipulate themselves.