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  1. #11
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    hmm. so after some life changing epiphanies from other threads, I've realized I don't make eye contact because I'm scared of making connections with people.

    I'm not scared of making connections with women I'm interested in.

  2. #12
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    Well, that's a good thing - useful information. Have you decided what to do with it yet?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    hmm. so after some life changing epiphanies from other threads, I've realized I don't make eye contact because I'm scared of making connections with people.

    I'm not scared of making connections with women I'm interested in.
    I read your other post about dating and instinctual variants and now this one, and I just wanna see if I got this right, it's just a wild guess: you fear eye contact with other people because you're afraid they'll recognize your sense of superiority and hate you or at least envy you for it so they might exclude you and you'll be left isolated, you don't fear eye contact with woman because they are not bothered by it, they may even find it attractive, but you didn't want to be superior in the first place, what you wanted was to belong somewhere, so to satisfy your need for connection you search for an equal someone who can meet your craving for intensity in life that can be overwhelming to others, because in the end you cannot stand lowering yourself to someone else's level because that feels like a self-betrayal, it goes against your nature, you feel that if you're to be liked you have to change, and I'm guessing at some point you might have tried to do things the way they were expected from you, but you only felt the disconnection deeper, you may have been accepted as such but felt alone among people. Did I manage to understand something or did I just project some aspects of myself lol

  4. #14
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    I was like that before. I was scared of negative judgement mostly. But I practiced and taught myself to be comfortable and make eye contact naturally. I do it without thinking now.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I've realized I don't make eye contact because I'm scared of making connections with people.
    You might be exaggerating its importance too much. Most people will not think of making eye contact as anything significantly important in most situations. For example, if someone is talking to you, it's merely a signal that says you are paying attention and not being ignorant.

  5. #15
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    The eyes are nature's best indicator of interest to another. Interest and many other feelings.

    The body speaks for you.

    The subconscious knows this and since implying interest to another is culturally inappropriate and could lead one to trouble it tells the eyes to look away.

    So the eyes look away.

    So look away if you don't want him/her to know but hold it for a little bit longer if you want him/her to know.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daenera View Post
    I read your other post about dating and instinctual variants and now this one, and I just wanna see if I got this right, it's just a wild guess: you fear eye contact with other people because you're afraid they'll recognize your sense of superiority and hate you or at least envy you for it so they might exclude you and you'll be left isolated, you don't fear eye contact with woman because they are not bothered by it, they may even find it attractive, but you didn't want to be superior in the first place, what you wanted was to belong somewhere, so to satisfy your need for connection you search for an equal someone who can meet your craving for intensity in life that can be overwhelming to others, because in the end you cannot stand lowering yourself to someone else's level because that feels like a self-betrayal, it goes against your nature, you feel that if you're to be liked you have to change, and I'm guessing at some point you might have tried to do things the way they were expected from you, but you only felt the disconnection deeper, you may have been accepted as such but felt alone among people. Did I manage to understand something or did I just project some aspects of myself lol
    haha. the first 2/3rds were right. The last couple sentences weren't right.

    I don't want people to know who I am inside, and hate me/envy me for it, I'd rather they remain neutral. I've made eye contact with people before, and they've immediately told me "You're a dick" or other strange reactions. I had an ENTJ go around and tell everyone I'm creepy. I don't know if eye contact was the culprit, but I've had tons of E3's go behind my back and slaughter my reputation in the office for reasons I'm still unsure of. All I know is when I first met them, I shook their hands, looked them deep in the eyes in a friendly manner, and they were never secretly never friends with me after that.

    In my mind, most people are untrustworthy until proven otherwise, and a lot of people don't like knowing this. So I hide my eyes from them so they can't read me. I'd rather be in control of how people react to me.

    I don't mind eye contact with women because, if I'm interested in them, there's nothing bad going on in my head, no hatred, no mistrust, just, attraction. So no woman has ever complained about such a thing. I've told girlfriends in the past that I hide my eyes because I come off as hostile, she told me "You never come off that way to me," I said, "that's because I like you."

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Bubble View Post
    I was like that before. I was scared of negative judgement mostly. But I practiced and taught myself to be comfortable and make eye contact naturally. I do it without thinking now.



    You might be exaggerating its importance too much. Most people will not think of making eye contact as anything significantly important in most situations. For example, if someone is talking to you, it's merely a signal that says you are paying attention and not being ignorant.
    Its not so much what others think of me so much as it is how I feel toward them. Dominating personalities use it to intimidate, manipulative personalities use it to hypnotise, etc. Not worth it. It has a powerful effect on me... and I have a powerful effect on them.

  8. #18
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    haha. the first 2/3rds were right. The last couple sentences weren't right
    I was not sure if something of what I wrote will resonate with you, you didn't come off as easy to read, but don't get cocky I'm sure you're predictable as any other ESTP, it's just that I didn't have facial expressions to read, otherwise I'm sure you'd be an open book for me to read

    I don't want people to know who I am inside, and hate me/envy me for it, I'd rather they remain neutral. I've made eye contact with people before, and they've immediately told me "You're a dick" or other strange reactions. I had an ENTJ go around and tell everyone I'm creepy. I don't know if eye contact was the culprit, but I've had tons of E3's go behind my back and slaughter my reputation in the office for reasons I'm still unsure of. All I know is when I first met them, I shook their hands, looked them deep in the eyes in a friendly manner, and they were never secretly never friends with me after that.

    In my mind, most people are untrustworthy until proven otherwise, and a lot of people don't like knowing this. So I hide my eyes from them so they can't read me. I'd rather be in control of how people react to me.
    Brace yourself, here comes a wild infj theory:
    People usually can't bring themselves easily to be neutral, they prefer to categorize you as a friend or an enemy, not everyone has a taste for ambiguity and what annoys or scares them the most is the unfamiliar, they associate it with danger. I think they pick up on the fact that you don't trust them, so they perceive you as a possible danger so they act before you do, for me this explain why you have troubles with E3 related to work, they feel threatened where they locate their value. The question here would be why you see them as untrustworthy, and I'm assuming is the 8s fear of being hurt. So you find yourself in a situation where you don't want to hurt someone but you cannot ignore the feelings of doubt towards them and that's what leads you to look away. But the thing is looking away wont make you look less hostile. By hiding your eyes the person who looks at you becomes suspicious, he concludes you're hiding something and like I've mentioned people fear what they don't know the most, so he sees that you're a possible threat, but what that person also picks up on is that you do have power to hurt him but for some reason you don't and here that person actually starts believing that he has power over you, his reasoning is that you don't attack him because your afraid of him and that gives him the right to act against you.(people pick up on fear as animals do) I think the problem is not only that you find people untrustworthy, but because for some reason you haven't lived up to your potential yet. I have a wild explanation for this too, but I'm trying to explain my theory as short as I can. lol You've mentioned you'd like to be in control of how people react to you, but in reality the only reactions we can and should control is our own. By trying to control their reactions you're actually letting yourself be defined by someone else. No matter what you'll do in life someone will be bothered by it, and if they do it's their problem (of course this is so if you don't hurt them purposely with some of your actions). Yes, I know that you cannot ignore their behavior because if they are bothered by yours they're likely to act against you and do you harm, like you've mentioned the troubles you have with some E3, but here you can see what I meant when I said you should only be concerned about your own reactions: their behavior towards you can leave you disappointed in people and can lead you to close up to people who are worth you're attention, (and this makes them win) or you can see it as a lesson and use it as a motivation. What do I mean by that? Well, I think as an 8 you need to learn to open yourself up to pain, look at it this way: instead of running away from it, embrace it, look at it as building immunity towards pain. (in terms of motivation you can motivate yourself to be even more persistent in doing what you want to do and get the things you want:they say living well is the best revenge lol)
    Allow yourself to trust someone before you get to know them. What's the worst thing that can happen? You can be hurt yes, but like I said you'll build up immunity against pain. Instead of being to self-aware in that kind of situations and thinking about the form of your behavior(how to shape it so you don't come off hostile), even if you don't trust someone convince yourself in that moment that you trust them and like Infinite Bubble said the form will come naturally, with time you wont even be aware of such things. I'll conclude my wild theory with a quote that sums up what I've been getting at:
    “We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.” I have more thoughts on the subject but I'm gonna stop here, I don't know how much I got right this time but felt like sharing my perspective on the matter anyway

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