• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Hope & Expectation

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,038
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
What is the relationship between hope and expectation? I have the ability to let go of expectation, but it doesn't feel like a great Buddhist-type enlightenment, but more of a resigned cynicism that also lets go of hope. When I have hope there is always some element of expectation which makes it feel especially fragile. I totally get how letting go of expectation can bring peace, but how to do such a thing without giving up hope?
 

Ivy

Strongly Ambivalent
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
23,989
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6
I wish I knew.
 

Z Buck McFate

Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
6,048
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
A quote I like by Pema Chödrön:


Hope and fear come from feeling that we lack something; they come from a sense of poverty. We can’t simply relax with ourselves. We hold on to hope, and hope robs us of the present moment. We feel that someone else knows what’s going on, but that there’s something missing in us, and therefore something is lacking in our world.

Rather than letting our negativity get the better of us, we could acknowledge that right now we feel like a piece of shit and not be squeamish about taking a good look. That’s the compassionate thing to do. That’s the brave thing to do. We can’t just jump over ourselves as if we were not there. It’s better to take a straight look at all our hopes and fears. Then some kind of confidence in our basic sanity arises.​

[And then another quote uumlau has previously posted in response to the one above, from the Tao Te Ching:]

13

Success is as dangerous as failure.
Hope is as hollow as fear.

What does it mean that success is a dangerous as failure?
Whether you go up the ladder or down it,
your position is shaky.
When you stand with your two feet on the ground,
you will always keep your balance.

What does it mean that hope is as hollow as fear?
Hope and fear are both phantoms
that arise from thinking of the self.
When we don't see the self as self,
what do we have to fear?

See the world as your self.
Have faith in the way things are.
Love the world as your self;
then you can care for all things.​

And then I just read something regarding expectations along the same vein, yesterday, by Carl Rogers. I'll have to come back with that one when I've got the book handy. eta: Okay I’ve found the quote and I’m not sure it (or the quotes above) is the kind of food for thought being sought in the op- but it’s Carl Rogers and therefore possibly worth posting anyway. From “Growing Old: or Older and Growing?”:

In my marriage of so many years, and in these friendships, I am continuing to learn more in the realm of intimacy. I am becoming more sharply aware of the times when I experience pain, anger, frustration, and rejection, as well as the closeness born of shared meanings or the satisfaction of being understood or accepted. I have learned how hard it is to confront with negative feelings a person whom I care about deeply. I have learned how expectations in a relationship turn very easily into demands made on the relationship. In my experience, I have found that one of the hardest things for me is to care for a person for whatever he or she is, at that time, in the relationship. It is so much easier to care for others for what I think they are, or wish they would be, or feel they should be. To care for this person for what he or she is, dropping my own expectations of what I want him or her to be for me, dropping my desire to change this person to suit my needs, is a most difficult but enriching way to a satisfying intimate relationship.​
 

HongDou

navigating
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
5,191
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
This is an interesting question. :huh: I think the simplest answer I could give right now is to not lose hope for the best possible outcome but to let go of your expectations of others and their actions. For example, regarding a marriage proposal you could think "oh, he probably wouldn't do anything too big or cutesy because he's not like that" but you could still think "regardless of how he proposes, I'm sure it'll be magical and make me happy." I'm going to have to think about this question more and come back later.
 

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,568
What is the relationship between hope and expectation? I have the ability to let go of expectation, but it doesn't feel like a great Buddhist-type enlightenment, but more of a resigned cynicism that also lets go of hope. When I have hope there is always some element of expectation which makes it feel especially fragile. I totally get how letting go of expectation can bring peace, but how to do such a thing without giving up hope?

For my two cents this should go to the philosophy and spirituality thread.

I'm not sure how you can seperate the two, I'm not sure that people should, and I'm not sure that living without either is a good idea.

There are many things in buddhism which many people think are good things, that they try to personify like living in the present moment and not thinking about the past or future but I dont like the idea of those things at all, much better to be part of an unbroken chain stretching from past to future and to anticipate with hope the future than to exist in a present unmoved and unmoveable.

The exchange between the hebrewic-christian-western traditions and eastern buddhism is very worthy, each can highlight the flaws and short comings of the other very well, its a good example of the thesis-antithesis-synthesis-new thesis idea.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,038
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Maybe expectation is more rigid and controlling? Perhaps it is about internal constructs that people want to bend reality towards.

Hope ay be more flexible and is based on a principle which may be applied to reality any number of ways? Perhaps it interacts more directly with the external world and what it can actually offer?
 

INTP

Active member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
7,803
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx
hope = positive expectation
 

roman67

New member
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
146
For me hope and expectations are same the things, just different words.
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
For a 6... a familiar question.

I think there is something about trust in there. Trusting that you will be all right regardless of what happens.

Max Ehrmann said:
Go placidly amid the noise and haste [...] whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
 

Evo

Unapologetic being
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
3,160
MBTI Type
XNTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
What is the relationship between hope and expectation? I have the ability to let go of expectation, but it doesn't feel like a great Buddhist-type enlightenment, but more of a resigned cynicism that also lets go of hope. When I have hope there is always some element of expectation which makes it feel especially fragile. I totally get how letting go of expectation can bring peace, but how to do such a thing without giving up hope?


This was so hard for me to really grasp at first. I was always constantly being disappointed by my hopes and expectations not happening. My question was how can I have hope without lowering my expectations. But I realized I was putting everything in a box.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh66LZ1S4RY

In this video he explains what I mean by "box"

And also personally I had a religious upbringing and came to the realization that it was all shit. After that I was desperate to find out what this whole life thing was about. And I've kinda came across my own "religion" in a sense that I do some of the same things everyday ( religiously or continuously) out of respect for source/universe whatever you want to call it. So when I'm continually trusting in source or pretty much from a non-religious stand point ...that phrase that "life has a way of working itself out" Or "Everything's going to be ok" <-- when I do that. I'm constantly amazed at what I'm grateful for in my life.

I think being grateful with what u have .... is like the doorway to having more. And as long as u have trust like skylights says then it will continue.



For a 6... a familiar question.

I think there is something about trust in there. Trusting that you will be all right regardless of what happens.

yes
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
In a very tangible sense... I could compare it to my perspective on my work schedule. I prefer to work days, early hours, and be off on Saturday, and have let my employer know all of this. Usually that works out fine. But I used to dread checking the new schedule postings for fear that my schedule would deviate from my expectation. At some point I realized how much stress that was causing me and tried to work on coming to it in a different state of mind. Now I try to come to it with a sense of equinamity. I still hope that I get my preferences, but I don't automatically assume I will be miserable if I don't get them. For example, I'll be working tonight instead of this morning, because a coworker needed to switch, but it's ended up working out really nicely because I'll get to spend the day hanging out with my boyfriend, and it turns out he has a family engagement tonight anyway. It actually is even better than working the day shift. I still struggle with not feeling deflated when I see a less-than-preferable schedule, but I feel more in control and at peace now. It's more like I can create my own happiness instead of relying on events to create it for me.

I'm hoping to carry that sense with me when I go into a new career. Whenever you start something new you're bottom of the barrel, so I know I'll have less-than-preferable duties and hours. But I often end up feeling that my sense of disappointment is far worse before an unpreferable event than during the event itself - usually during I'm engaged in whatever tasks I'm doing, and cognitive distress just isn't useful. So I'm going to try hard to carry that sense of "everything will work out just fine" with me. That trust opens the floor up for me to take control of my personal happiness instead of assigning it to some external variable.
 

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,568
What is the relationship between hope and expectation? I have the ability to let go of expectation, but it doesn't feel like a great Buddhist-type enlightenment, but more of a resigned cynicism that also lets go of hope. When I have hope there is always some element of expectation which makes it feel especially fragile. I totally get how letting go of expectation can bring peace, but how to do such a thing without giving up hope?

Hmm, I'm not sure how they are linked, I can drop expectations sometimes because I am hopeful, I am hopeful that perhaps there's some reason why whoever it is is unable or unwilling to meet the expectation at that time and if its removed, for a time, they will have the head space or whatever to be better able to meet it when they have to again, its a sort of developmental view of it.

If I held more tenaciously to expectations it would be because I had no hope for people and held the expectations to be of greater value than the people invovled. If you know what I mean.
 
Top