User Tag List

12311 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 285

  1. #1
    Epiphany
    Guest

    Default Race, Gender and Identity

    Along the subject which arose from this thread, to what extent does your race and/or gender factor into your sense of identity? For me, I would say, very little. I view both as rather arbitrary. Not that my personality hasn't been influenced by the environment I was raised in, and society as a whole, gives more attention to such issues than I do. I view racial pride as a subtle form of racism and pride in one's gender as sexism; both of which, like nationalism, can fester into a disdain for anyone who does not belong to your group, or evolve into a sense of elitism. Are minorities in any given population more likely to identify with these characteristics in opposition to a perceived threat from the majority, whether real, imagined or exaggerated? I can understand it to an extent, as I believe that my personality is contrary to the majority of the population and feel a certain kinship with those who seem like-minded. Perhaps, I have even let resentment toward those who behave in extreme contrast to myself build up over time. Excessively loud people annoy me and if someone seems unintelligent, overly confident and lacking in self-awareness, I admit that I harbor a repulsion to their presence. Much of that has to do with the fact that many of these people seem to rise to the top of the social hierarchy, but I'm getting away from the topic. Maybe it is easier for someone who doesn't belong to a particular minority to form his/her identity on characteristics which don't pertain to such factors; although I'm not differentiating between sex and gender because most will agree that they are innate qualities that nobody has control over, regardless of how an individual defines them. That's what I appreciate about online correspondence. Unless someone divulges their race or gender, they are primarily judged by the content of their character or how they choose to convey it instead of prejudices and expectations cultivated by society.

  2. #2
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,526
    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    Along the subject which arose from this thread, to what extent does your race and/or gender factor into your sense of identity? For me, I would say, very little. I view both as rather arbitrary. Not that my personality hasn't been influenced by the environment I was raised in, and society as a whole, gives more attention to such issues than I do. I view racial pride as a subtle form of racism and pride in one's gender as sexism; both of which, like nationalism, can fester into a disdain for anyone who does not belong to your group, or evolve into a sense of elitism. Are minorities in any given population more likely to identify with these characteristics in opposition to a perceived threat from the majority, whether real, imagined or exaggerated? I can understand it to an extent, as I believe that my personality is contrary to the majority of the population and feel a certain kinship with those who seem like-minded. Perhaps, I have even let resentment toward those who behave in extreme contrast to myself build up over time. Excessively loud people annoy me and if someone seems unintelligent, overly confident and lacking in self-awareness, I admit that I harbor a repulsion to their presence. Much of that has to do with the fact that many of these people seem to rise to the top of the social hierarchy, but I'm getting away from the topic. Maybe it is easier for someone who doesn't belong to a minority to form his/her identity on issues which don't pertain to such factors; although I'm not differentiating between sex and gender because most will agree that they are innate qualities that nobody has control over, regardless of how an individual defines them. That's what I appreciate about online correspondence. Unless someone divulges their race or gender, they are primarily judged on the content of their character or how they choose to convey it instead of prejudices and expectations cultivated by society.
    Yes, it is interesting - not only has the internet abolished space and time, but privacy has been abolished along with the individual.

    And this is not all - for on the internet, "no one knows you are a dog", that is, no one knows your gender or race. So we can say gender and race have also been abolished on the internet.

    Of course this is a major social change and it takes a while for our minds to catch up to the facts on the ground.

    But slowly our minds are starting to realise that we are members of electronic tribes in the global village.

  3. #3
    movin melodies kiddykat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4, 7
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    1,115

    Default

    I think race/gender strongly influences how one perceives his/her own identity (and reality)..

    There's no denying how one is brought up or viewed in society can play social expectations on one's own outcome in how he/she perceives him/herself.

    Denying aspects of our cultural identity (even socio-economic background) is like turning a blind eye to those differences, and denying the fact that people are treated differently. Acknowledging adversities in one's experience helps to create social changes needed to improve people's lives.

    My personal experience with gender and race is that I've faced social inequality, but I don't let those factors define me. I define my own personal experiences. And, in some ways, by owning my personal narratives, I have more meaning to what I want to accomplish.

  4. #4
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,533

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Camel Toe View Post
    That's what I appreciate about online correspondence. Unless someone divulges their race or gender, they are primarily judged by the content of their character or how they choose to convey it instead of prejudices and expectations cultivated by society.
    Interesting thread. I will have more comments later. For now, I will simply observe that failure to divulge characteristics like race or gender online does not stop others from making assumptions. Especially with gender, there seems to be a drive to put people into boxes, even absent any indications from the individual. Many months ago I posed the question: how do people, subconsciously perhaps, determine which gender to associate with online correspondents in the absence of convincing evidence? I was especially interested in what assumptions were made based on posting style (as opposed to username or avatar).
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #5
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,526

    LCDs and Ideals

    Race and gender are our lowest common denominators.

    For we all belong to a race or gender.

    And we appeal to race and gender, our LCDs, when we don't want to appeal to our highest ideals.

  6. #6
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INtp
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    5,091

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Race and gender are our lowest common denominators.

    For we all belong to a race or gender.

    And we appeal to race and gender, our LCDs, when we don't want to appeal to our highest ideals.

    Yes, this is exactly why I don't see race or gender as an important part of my identity.

    My identity, revolves around the unique things that make me, me. Things like personality quirks, likes and dislikes, interests, skills and knowledge, etc.
    INtp
    5w6 or 9w1 sp/so/sx, I think
    Ravenclaw/Hufflepuff
    Neutral Good
    LII-Ne




  7. #7
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    EIE
    Posts
    3,919

    Default

    This is a pretty good text on the matter:
    Part 1: http://www.tomatobubble.com/wonderfulrace1.html
    Part 2: http://www.tomatobubble.com/wonderfulrace2.html


    Being a White European man, I have certain ideals and obligations which I live up to.
    I must be strong, courageous, assertive, knowledgeable and a doer.
    I must be a good father, steadfast friend and loving husband.
    And by the gods, I am.
    I must also fight against whoever seeks to destroy us. And I do.
    Courage today, victory tomorrow!
    Our identity has been eroded by years and years of ceaseless propaganda and indoctrination...
    We have been feminized, liberalized and we have no sense of direction like all other races.
    Seeing those without it, I can only think back to the days where I hadn't awakened yet.
    I look at others with a mix of hope and pity.

    It is, however, in my blood to be what I am. And if you look deep into yourself... You can find that warrior there.
    Some of you certainly do not like what I write. Today.
    But you will remember me when you are forced to wake up from your liberal dream world.
    You might have an itchy little precognition that it might just be crumbling all around you.
    Soon, we will all live in Detroit conditions, and we will be a hated minority if we do not do something about it.
    And you know, the dream will shatter and we are going to war again.
    A lot of bad things will happen, but in the end we will regain our identity.

    We have everything to be proud of, and nothing to be ashamed of that hasn't been repaid a thousand times already.
    The world would be a very uncivilized place if it weren't for white people.
    Anyone who tells me I can't be proud to be White can respectfully kiss my behind.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    MBTI
    infp
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Camel View Post
    Along the subject which arose from this thread, to what extent does your race and/or gender factor into your sense of identity? For me, I would say, very little. I view both as rather arbitrary. Not that my personality hasn't been influenced by the environment I was raised in, and society as a whole, gives more attention to such issues than I do. I view racial pride as a subtle form of racism and pride in one's gender as sexism; both of which, like nationalism, can fester into a disdain for anyone who does not belong to your group, or evolve into a sense of elitism.
    Interesting observations.... I have to say this particular subject is one Ive thought a lot about over the course of my lifetime. My observations have led to some similar conclusions. I find it kinda funny in fact that my own typology as an INFP appears as a filter for my experience as a biracial individual raised in a mall Midwest town. Its the interaction of these factors that yielded my conclusions on the matter. Being biracial means walking on a dividing between worlds. I see both sides in my family and can't choose sides. I effectively immerse myself culturally within each world as "one of them". At the same time I'm quietly observing inside, able to step back at an objective distances viewing with a critical eye each world as that outsider.

    I liken the experience to the description provided by Dr. Beebe of the Ne function. He describes Ne in terms of an old Indian Fable in which blind men are each feeling their way around an elephant examining a different part of it in excruciating detail to figure out what it is. They come up with different conclusions, based on different perspectives. What you get in such circumstances are differing conclusions based on varied edited perceptions, judgments, thoughts, etc.

    What makes this so difficult is when you can see how each blind man is unwilling to examine flaws in their own thinking. There are always creative editing processes that can occur in our perceptions of things. Its important to ask to what degree we are willfully denying that which contradicts what you believe "is". Conclusions, beliefs and perceptions when unexamined act as self fulfilling prophecies we use create our personal reality with....

    http://www.wordfocus.com/word-act-blindmen.html

    In the end, because of thus, I've always affirmed my identity as a biracial person by saying I am both and yet neither. I find it fascinating to step back and see how much of what we perceive is a creation of our own thought processes. While our perceptions must by necessity reflect reality. They aren't always so much logical conclusions of reality as much as they are self-fulfilling prophecies for that reality we find ourselves in...

  9. #9
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    1,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    So we can say gender and race have also been abolished on the internet.
    This is definitely not true because if it was true you wouldn't see sites such as Personality Cafe asking you the question what ethnic group you belong to on your profile, or have essentially every site in the world asking you about your gender and some don't even allow it as an option to keep it anonymous. Also, if this was true, then you wouldn't see memes such as "there are no women on the internet" floating around, or having men asking people they think are women based on the username/avatar where they live and the size of their physical features, or have people generalize and discriminate an entire group of players just because they happened to play on the same race in an MMO.

    In a transgressive world some people will latch onto the definitions they know more than ever in order to feel secure. This applies just as much on the internet as in the physical world.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Youtuber | The Typologist Blog | Redditor | Message me!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    1,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant View Post
    This is a pretty good text on the matter:
    Part 1: http://www.tomatobubble.com/wonderfulrace1.html
    Part 2: http://www.tomatobubble.com/wonderfulrace2.html


    Being a White European man, I have certain ideals and obligations which I live up to.
    I must be strong, courageous, assertive, knowledgeable and a doer.
    I must be a good father, steadfast friend and loving husband.
    And by the gods, I am.
    I must also fight against whoever seeks to destroy us. And I do.
    Courage today, victory tomorrow!
    Our identity has been eroded by years and years of ceaseless propaganda and indoctrination...
    We have been feminized, liberalized and we have no sense of direction like all other races.
    Seeing those without it, I can only think back to the days where I hadn't awakened yet.
    I look at others with a mix of hope and pity.

    It is, however, in my blood to be what I am. And if you look deep into yourself... You can find that warrior there.
    Some of you certainly do not like what I write. Today.
    But you will remember me when you are forced to wake up from your liberal dream world.
    You might have an itchy little precognition that it might just be crumbling all around you.
    Soon, we will all live in Detroit conditions, and we will be a hated minority if we do not do something about it.
    And you know, the dream will shatter and we are going to war again.
    A lot of bad things will happen, but in the end we will regain our identity.

    We have everything to be proud of, and nothing to be ashamed of that hasn't been repaid a thousand times already.
    The world would be a very uncivilized place if it weren't for white people.
    Anyone who tells me I can't be proud to be White can respectfully kiss my behind.
    Newsflash: you define your own identity. You decide who you are. No one is taking anything or eroding anything away. I'd call it adaptation. Either you choose to adapt or be destroyed. That message should be simple enough for you to understand (although I could ramble more about the gender essentialist assumptions around the crisis of masculinity but whatever).

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Youtuber | The Typologist Blog | Redditor | Message me!

Similar Threads

  1. Race, Culture and MBTI
    By animenagai in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 86
    Last Post: 07-10-2013, 10:27 PM
  2. Violence and Identity
    By Mole in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 07-27-2012, 10:57 PM
  3. believe and identity
    By The Machine Stops in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-10-2011, 07:54 PM
  4. [E9] Type 9 and Identity
    By DJAchtundvierzig in forum Enneatypes
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 02-04-2011, 10:49 AM
  5. [NT] Intelligence, growth, and identity
    By Argus in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 09-06-2009, 10:16 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO