Race, Gender and Identity

[Magic Poriferan]

Something is serious fucked on this forum if someone like Marm can get a 6mth ban for being a bit uppity but someone who commits the crime of Holocaust denial, which carries a jail term in most of Europe, is allowed to spout his hatespeech with impunity.
SERIOUSLY. FUCKED.
Why are you allowing this site to be a hub for the dissemination of the ideas of offensive despicable lying criminals?

Well, it's a site based in the USA. Not only are there no such laws against this sort of thing in the USA, the prevailing culture is such that many, if not most Americans find the proposal of such a law offensive. Hell, even on places like this forum, which is of no real legal status, a censored or banned member might go ranting about the 1st amendment and so forth.

 

[Salomé]

^Needless to say, I wasn't addressing you.

 

[Bamboo]

Dear Mods,

I regret that I decided to post something on topic in this thread in the middle of this 'storm' because well, it pretty much is just going to get lost in the fray. I wanted to hear what people would say about it. Moreso, I actually want to respond to other people, but like having a discussion at a crowded dinner table, I can't quite make out what they're saying from across the room - too much other stuff in the way to sort through.

I suggest this thread get split. I know it's work, but I'd much appreciate the effort, and I think others would as well.

Sincerely,
Bamboo

 

[Cellmold]

Sweden! :hi:

We're watching you...NWO!

 

[Beorn]

Is it not also because you recognize a pattern? His ideology is basically a racio-political religion, including the familiar cherry-picking of facts, the fabrication of evidence, the delusion of truth, the resistance to rational thought and reasonable inference, and the urge to turn belief into militant action against 'the others'.

Yes, I do. There is definately a pattern here that is reminiscent of new-atheism. You're welcome.

 

[Randomnity]

Yes, I do. There is definately a pattern here that is reminiscent of new-atheism. You're welcome.

This is about as logical as calling all Christians pedophiles, and about as offensive.

Actually, I take it back, since I think I misinterpreted you as talking about the white supremacy ideology itself rather than about the behaviours Nico was talking about. Still not logical, but not nearly as offensive.

 

[Beorn]

This is about as logical as calling all Christians pedophiles, and about as offensive.

Actually, I take it back, since I think I misinterpreted you as talking about the white supremacy ideology itself rather than about the behaviours Nico was talking about. Still not logical, but not nearly as offensive.

Much like people who go on and on about tolerance I find people who go on and on about logic to be the least logical. They tend to throw the term around and use it for things they dislike rather than actually making a logical argument.

 

[iNtrovert]

Race and gender is important to me. It's a huge part of my identity. It wouldn't be so important to me if it wasn't so important to everyone else. I get reminded i'm black every day in one way or another. I don't see away around it shaping who I am or how I see myself in respect to the world. One example that come to mind is my hair.

I have an Afro and I love it. I also go to a university that is not all that diverse. I get dirty looks ,snickers and stares. I have even had my hair petted on occasion. I've had natural hair for about year now but up until then I wore weaves and got chemical relaxers to straighten my hair since. Why? Because I was always told that my natural hair was ugly. I will never forget the time someone ran their finger through my hair and said "ummhh it's about time for a perm don't you think". I was only 8 years old and the message that being black and having my hair type was something that I needed to alter.

I think another reason why I identify with race is because everyone can't identify with certain experiences. That doesn't mean people of other races don't know what it's like to struggle with image or have never felt pressure to change themselves but they don't experience my pressures or my image issues like another person of my race probably would have. So I defiantly do take my race as part of my identity but I do understand race is not ALL that I am. I'm also human (just thinking that people of my race couldn't legally say that at one point is surreal)

 

[Ginkgo]

And stop excusing him because of his fictional accounts of being attacked by immigrants.

Who's excusing him?

 

[Pseudo]

I think every people on this planet have the fundamental right to their own country. Regardless of race or creed.
How is that disrespect? Do tell me.
How is it disrespect to talk about real biological differences?

Sounds more like criticizing "the word of God" during the time of the Inquisition.

How would you divide those countries? There can be more genetic difference between two white people than between two individuals of different races. So a genetic grouping would be out. An visually there is such a spectrum of humanity that a visual segregation whilst keep everyone in the right place. Where exactly to the "white people" begin?

Also you've yet to provide any evidence for your claims that non-white and uncivilized and violent people. Besides your one run in with a group of six men. Which I will counter with Neil degrasse Tyson, Maurice Ashley, Bernard Anthony Harris, joe lewis, sir William Arthur Lewis and Desmond tutu.

Six smart black guys who don't want to harm you!!!

 

[Pseudo]

Much like people who go on and on about tolerance I find people who go on and on about logic to be the least logical. They tend to throw the term around and use it for things they dislike rather than actually making a logical argument.

I've tried logic with him but he doesn't want to reason.

There is not evidence that mixed race people are diseased or sterile and I'm a living example that it isn't so. If he had evidence it would be a different story but why would be tolerate things that are ver obviously false and intentionally degrading to other people.

I wouldn't tolerate someone claiming that Christians eat there young because it is obviously false and only meant as an attack.

I agree that many people claiming tolerance are intolerant but I don't think that means we accept people who claim that the earth is flat or that people get freckles by commuting sins. At certain point we can say look "what your saying isn't based in anything but xenophobia"

 

[Beorn]

I've tried logic with him but he doesn't want to reason.

There is not evidence that mixed race people are diseased or sterile and I'm a living example that it isn't so. If he had evidence it would be a different story but why would be tolerate things that are ver obviously false and intentionally degrading to other people.

I wouldn't tolerate someone claiming that Christians eat there young because it is obviously false and only meant as an attack.

That statement wasn't an extension of my defense of Valiant, but merely an attack against Randomnity for her penchant for throwing around the term logical without actually making a logical argument.

I agree that many people claiming tolerance are intolerant but I don't think that means we accept people who claim that the earth is flat or that people get freckles by commuting sins. At certain point we can say look "what your saying isn't based in anything but xenophobia"

What do you mean by not accepting people?

As Coriolas noted I do have limits to my own tolerance, indeed I've even stated I think local communities should have the right to ban the Westboro people. I'm just a little disturbed by the vague references to the rejection of people and not just their ideas in this forum. It seems to me that in this context if someone isn't capable of being reasoned with they should just be ignored. If they're trolling that's a different issue.

 

[Valiant]

I've tried logic with him but he doesn't want to reason.

There is not evidence that mixed race people are diseased or sterile and I'm a living example that it isn't so. If he had evidence it would be a different story but why would be tolerate things that are ver obviously false and intentionally degrading to other people.

I wouldn't tolerate someone claiming that Christians eat there young because it is obviously false and only meant as an attack.

I agree that many people claiming tolerance are intolerant but I don't think that means we accept people who claim that the earth is flat or that people get freckles by commuting sins. At certain point we can say look "what your saying isn't based in anything but xenophobia"

Can you provide me with a logical reason not to be an "evil racist heretic"?
Can you give me proof that we are all the same, just different cosmetics?
So far you have not shared even the smallest fragment of proof, just your emotionally critical ramblings.
I, on the other hand, have referenced to you material which explains my views both by telling what you can read to understand as well as easily digested video material.
Like the video of Dr. Francizek Piper admitting to specific changes made to air raid shelters etc in order to make air raid shelters into gas chambers. After the war by the red army.
Now, that's one of the people that you guys base your world-view upon. The original source.
Yet you have him on film, admitting to this. Something he would only do to a jewish person.
Now tell me, what does that tell you?

You claim to be all logical, but you are just caught in this paradigm and unable to get your mind through the veil of emotion that kills your rationale in this case.
Or perhaps you have something to lose by admitting you're wrong.

 

[Pseudo]

That statement wasn't an extension of my defense of Valiant, but merely an attack against Randomnity for her penchant for throwing around the term logical without actually making a logical argument.



What do you mean by not accepting people?

As Coriolas noted I do have limits to my own tolerance, indeed I've even stated I think local communities should have the right to ban the Westboro people. I'm just a little disturbed by the vague references to the rejection of people and not just their ideas in this forum. It seems to me that in this context if someone isn't capable of being reasoned with they should just be ignored. If they're trolling that's a different issue.

I guess in terms of the forum at what point does unsupported attacks on groups become hate speech and how long do we tolerate it before some kind of action taken.

I agree that we should just ignore it if it can't be reasoned with but in terms of "acceptance" what I meant was that I don't feel the need to treat those views with any measure of respect (person begrudgingly yes). That is to say, "no, one is entitled to that opinion" and that it is a "wrong thought" rather than a differing opinion.

As an example I accept Hinduism even though I think it is inaccurate. I can't disprove it. I don't accept the belief that women have less teeth than men. I can disprove that.

 

[Lark]

Hmm, I dont think that ethnicity is important to me, I'm opposed to racism and most of the times I've been made aware of the race/ethnic dimension of my identity its because someone was prepared to discriminate or hate on me because of what they felt about it, not because of what I felt about it.

I dont think that gender is particularly important, I'm not self conscious of it I mean, I'm a man and there's a lot of good things about being a man and I like a lot of the comic manliness publishing or films.

 

[Nicodemus]

Like the video of Dr. Francizek Piper admitting to specific changes made to air raid shelters etc in order to re-make air raid shelters into gas chambers. After the war by the red army.

There.

 

[Valiant]

There.

Allied aerial surveillance photos proves that there never were any holes in the ceiling during the time specified, though.
Or ever, for that matter. The holes were put in afterwards.
It's all in the video.

Good try.

 

[Nicodemus]

Allied aerial surveillance photos proves that there never were any holes in the ceiling during the time specified, though.
Or ever, for that matter. The holes were put in afterwards.
It's all in the video.

Good try.

What about the other gas chambers? Also invented?

 

[Valiant]

What about the other gas chambers? Also invented?

Yes. Like the one called Crematorium 3. It used to be just that, a crematorium and a morgue.
I never said people didn't die. Over 60 000 people died in Auschwitz-Birkenau during the time the camp was active.
That is indeed horrible, but the thought was never to keep them there for that long, and logistics were made impossible due to allied bombings...
Lack of food and medicine led to sickness and death of many.
Then we have people trying to escape, riots and other things, all of which was handles less than delicately. Even inhumane. That I definitely admit.
It could have been done better, that's for sure. But focus wasn't on the prison camps, they were fighting a war on all fronts, and it simply wasn't all that important.
But naturally, jews need attention. "Wants to be the bride at every party", as someone put it once.

 

[Pseudo]

Can you provide me with a logical reason not to be an "evil racist heretic"?
Can you give me proof that we are all the same, just different cosmetics?
So far you have not shared even the smallest fragment of proof, just your emotionally critical ramblings.
I, on the other hand, have referenced to you material which explains my views both by telling what you can read to understand as well as easily digested video material.
Like the video of Dr. Francizek Piper admitting to specific changes made to air raid shelters etc in order to make air raid shelters into gas chambers. After the war by the red army.
Now, that's one of the people that you guys base your world-view upon. The original source.
Yet you have him on film, admitting to this. Something he would only do to a jewish person.
Now tell me, what does that tell you?

You claim to be all logical, but you are just caught in this paradigm and unable to get your mind through the veil of emotion that kills your rationale in this case.
Or perhaps you have something to lose by admitting you're wrong.

I offered you evidence of myself and other mixed race people who are not diseased or sterile. There are numerous mixed race people capable of reproducing.

I have also offered you examples of numerous inventions by non-whites, and several black men who are extremely accomplished and non-violent. These men are intelligent and not bent on the destruction of white society.


I've mentioned how there is more genetic variation within groups than between them.

Also, I questioned you on how you would define subspecies of humans which you didn't answer.