Race, Gender and Identity

[Valiant]

This thread brings to mind a time when I was 17. A very caucasian, very alone runaway in a big city - in the very poor end of town, no less.
Mostly hispanic residents, a lot of gangs. Shops with Spanish as the primary language on the signs. Very foreign to someone like me, obviously. People I know may describe it as a "dangerous, bad area."

Everyone was actually very polite to me, when I ventured out for my basic needs.

Ironically, my one brush with danger wasn't with anyone of color, but with a white man in his 40s, who appeared as benign as a math teacher.
Creep chased me in his car for several blocks and tried to force me inside.

Nearly every female I know who's been victimized in some way like this more often than not, had such encounters with primarily white men.


I'm not saying racism on either side doesn't exist- when we lived in the south, my brother was actually beaten up in junior high, on his bus, by some African American boys who used their race as a reason to bully others. "Get out of that seat, white boy, you owe us." My brother made a remark about how his ancestors freed them. This led to a 3:1 fistfight, recorded by the camera on the bus. The African American principal did not suspend the 3 boys who initiated the fight, but he did suspend my brother from riding the bus for the remainder of the year "for making racist remarks." It was only until my mother threatened legal action that he rescinded.


I recall losing a white friend nearby my house there, when her mother found out we'd let the black kids down the street from us swim in our pool.
It can go both ways.

And the point is.. both are ignorant, and blatantly retarded. How this can still be a question in anyone's mind nowadays is baffling, to me.
I'd be interested in seeing well-documented/supported statistics that place the 'blame' all on non-white people.


We're all human.. what else is there? Why do you even need anything else?
It's pathetic that this is even an issue at all, for some people.

I understand wanting more benefits for the elderly in your country vs more funding going to immigrants, things like that. But that's got nothing to do with color. To assume so isn't going to really help your cause, it's just a terribly narrow, vapid way of examining or attempting to categorize things. It's an embarrassment to rational thought.

First of all, thank you for being civil.

You seem like a genuinely kind person, and I respect that.
It's just that even if I posted every study and piece of statistics out there, nobody would even read it.
The best bet is to make people angry enough to open their eyes and see what is in front of them.

What I am saying is that we are different. We are made for different lives, apart from each other.
The only thing that happens when you make societies multicultural/multiethnic is that you get conflict, always at someones' expense.
Why then, if not to hurt a specific or both groups, would anyone do such a thing?
I always was an issue, and it is now more actual than ever before.
We need segregation, a sea in between us would be nice, nothing but limited trade and intellectual contact for the betterment of our planet.

Either way, things are more of a slow-burning flame in the United States. You have always had problems.
Right now you're taking care of it with bread and games for the people (welfare and TV).
Plus a huge amount of suppression and white flight. You don't have forced integration like in some European countries, though.
Here, the problem is more recent, and it is abundantly clear.
For instance, the Norwegian police chief in Oslo went public with statistics saying that all assault rapes were committed by people of non-european origin.
Such statistics are of course illegal here in Sweden, because we don't have tens of thousands of immigrants...
We have a couple of million non-whites. In a small country of 7 million ethnic swedes.
Whites hardly do any crime except drunken brawling anymore, but that seldom hurts anyone bad.
I have followed crime on a forum with about 700 000 users, flashback.org, for years now.
The thing about that site is that they always publish the identity of the person convicted for something.
As soon as a violent crime of worse nature occurs, a thread will pop up about it.
The person convicted is almost always non-white.
Newspapers don't even go out with a description of the suspect anymore, because it is "racist".

Come on. Dig a bit. I know you're mild-mannered, kind and awesome...
But if something is seriously wrong, it is. And then it must be fixed.

 

[Ginkgo]

This is just a really dangerous remark. Ironically calling someone with differing viewpoints from you as mentally ill is just an excuse to treat them differently. I don't care how ridiculous their viewpoint seems.

Where's all that tolerance I keep hearing about?

It seems like trauma has left him with the opinions he harbors.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

This is just a really dangerous remark. Ironically referring to someone with differing viewpoints from you as mentally ill is just an excuse to treat them differently. I don't care how ridiculous their viewpoint seems.

Where's all that tolerance I keep hearing about?

When do you think someone qualifies as mentally ill? I don't call anyone who disagrees with my crazy. I'm calling him crazy because of the particular nature of his thinking.

 

[Valiant]

It seems like trauma has left him with the opinions he harbors.

No, I had it before.
It just made me do something about it and get organized.

 

[Ginkgo]

No, I had it before.
It just made me do something about it and get organized.

You blame the experience you had for your actions?

 

[Coriolis]

There are no physical evidence of the Holocaust that has not been refuted.
If a bunch of zionist lizards tell me something, I do not take it for proof.

If a delusional white supremacist tells me something, I don't take that for proof. There have been attempts to refute evidence of the Holocaust, but that is not the same as a successful refutation. I don't need to believe "zionists" about anything.

As for the second part, one word: Einstein.

As significant as Einstein's work was, he was not singlehandedly responsible for the Manhattan project. As much responsibility rests with FDR. Are you going to claim he was a Jew?

One thing I have always blamed white people for is alcohol abuse.
That one is our own damn fault, and one of the biggest.
Alcohol needs to go away, it is the cause of so much bad things in the world.

Looks like you agree with the Muslims on that count. Perhaps there is hope for you yet, if you can learn to see the good in each culture/society, while learning from and avoiding its mistakes.

 

[Lexicon]

First of all, thank you for being civil.

You seem like a genuinely kind person, and I respect that.
It's just that even if I posted every study and piece of statistics out there, nobody would even read it.
The best bet is to make people angry enough to open their eyes and see what is in front of them.

What I am saying is that we are different. We are made for different lives, apart from each other.
The only thing that happens when you make societies multicultural/multiethnic is that you get conflict, always at someones' expense.
Why then, if not to hurt a specific or both groups, would anyone do such a thing?
I always was an issue, and it is now more actual than ever before.
We need segregation, a sea in between us would be nice, nothing but limited trade and intellectual contact for the betterment of our planet.

Either way, things are more of a slow-burning flame in the United States. You have always had problems.
Right now you're taking care of it with bread and games for the people (welfare and TV).
Plus a huge amount of suppression and white flight. You don't have forced integration like in some European countries, though.
Here, the problem is more recent, and it is abundantly clear.
For instance, the Norwegian police chief in Oslo went public with statistics saying that all assault rapes were committed by people of non-european origin.
Such statistics are of course illegal here in Sweden, because we don't have tens of thousands of immigrants...
We have a couple of million non-whites. In a small country of 7 million ethnic swedes.
Whites hardly do any crime except drunken brawling anymore, but that seldom hurts anyone bad.
I have followed crime on a forum with about 700 000 users, flashback.org, for years now.
The thing about that site is that they always publish the identity of the person convicted for something.
As soon as a violent crime of worse nature occurs, a thread will pop up about it.
The person convicted is almost always non-white.
Newspapers don't even go out with a description of the suspect anymore, because it is "racist".

Come on. Dig a bit. I know you're mild-mannered, kind and awesome...
But if something is seriously wrong, it is. And then it must be fixed.

I won't pretend to know what the dynamics are like in countries a quarter of the size of my own, but I mean, if this is such an obvious problem for your country, why are you still in the minority after all these years? Various forms of National Socialist parties have been around your parts for decades.

I probably know more about National Socialism than I should- as a few confused friends of mine, years ago, were affiliating themselves with that position/culture, here. Being very curious about how these values were developed/built upon, I lurked in meeting doorways. It made little sense to me, objectively. Not that I failed to grasp the concepts- but that they had little applicability to the lives of Americans, in general. Many absolutes, and half-truths, that simply did not fit together. I'm not from Sweden, so I can't speak for your country.. but I have my suspicions about such dynamics, on a smaller scale. I won't claim to know.

I don't think you're trying to be hateful, necessarily (though you definitely appear biased, whether it's justified or not is questionable)- but your abrasive, radical approach will be perceived as nothing but hate and intolerance to most people. How far do you really expect to get, with that? How receptive do you think most people will or can be, to such a position?

 

[Valiant]

You blame the experience you had for your actions?

People get harassed by non-whites today in Sweden, no matter what they say or do.
They get raped, killed, robbed, slandered, groped and God only knows what.
So, what exactly were my "actions"? Walking?

Seriously, stop with the personal attacks now.
Keep to the subject if you want to talk to me at all.

 

[Valiant]

I won't pretend to know what the dynamics are like in countries a quarter of the size of my own, but I mean, if this is such an obvious problem for your country, why are you still in the minority after all these years? Various forms of National Socialist parties have been around your parts for decades.

I probably know more about National Socialism than I should- as a few confused friends of mine, years ago, were affiliating themselves with that position/culture, here. Being very curious I failed to grasp the concepts- but that they had little applicability to the lives of Americans, in general. Many absolutes, and half-truths, that simply did not fit together. I'm not from Sweden, so I can't speak for your country.. but I have my suspicions about such dynamics, on a smaller scale. I won't claim to know.

I don't think you're trying to be hateful, necessarily, but your abrasive, radical approach will be perceived as nothing but hate and intolerance to most people. How far do you really expect to get, with that? How receptive do you think most people will or can be, to such a position?

No, actually we don't have a big history of national socialism in Sweden.
Even during the world war, it wasn't particularly big outside of the army.
We're far too brainwashed by zionist media to do something about it. Yet.
It must get worse for most, especially older people, to wake up.
But young people who can't afford to live in villas outside the problematic areas are forced to see this.
Every day of our lives. Everywhere.
Compared to the Sweden I grew up in, this is a real toilet. Like Detroit. And it spreads.
Over 25% of young people will vote for an option they think are "pure nazi", because they are portrayed as such by the media.
However, they aren't. They are part of the jewish-led Counter-Jihadist movement.

And why does it all make sense?
The zionist globalists hate us, and they certainly hate arabs and other middle-easterners as well as black people.
Pitting us against each other is a great way of smacking several flies in one hit.

My enemies are not black people or arabs. They are just in the wrong place, because someone opened the gates and poured them in.
It's that someone that really is my enemy.

And besides... What you probably saw, being in the United States, was some skinhead crap.
You don't have any real party over there, just a bunch of subculturals and survivalist-types.
Here, we're far more normal.

I seriously hoped for a career in writing fiction. I want a calm life.
Instead I have to do this crap now, because I can't very well quit and live with my conscience.

 

[Lexicon]

I seriously hoped for a career in writing fiction.

Perhaps this is still something you could strive for, you know. I don't see why that's got to be tossed to the wayside, entirely. It's not like there's a deadline for these things.

 

[Beorn]

When do you think someone qualifies as mentally ill? I don't call anyone who disagrees with my crazy. I'm calling him crazy because of the particular nature of his thinking.

It seems like trauma has left him with the opinions he harbors.

I had no idea lay people could diagnose people with mental illness over the Internet within a few posts.

There seems to be a tendency both here and throughout the western world to want to dismiss not just the ideas of racists, but racists themselves. I'm not sure there's a difference here between his viewpoint and the "nature of his thinking." If a racist's ideas are so bad (and they are mostly silly) why bother venturing into personal territory like this? Can't you just accept that this guy had a bad experience, was a legitimate victim, and that affected his views? It just seems like an attempt to delegitimize his views by attacking him personally. He's making terribly baseless arguments, but I don't see the point in trying to dismiss him as a person when his arguments are so easy to dismiss.

 

[Ivy]

Why is speculating that his opinions are informed by his traumatic experience (which you did also: "this guy had a bad experience, was a legitimate victim, and that affected his views") "trying to dismiss him as a person"? People who struggle with PTSD, which includes me in the past, are still people. I'm not saying Valiant has PTSD because I agree that it's bad form to diagnose over the internet, but I don't think it's a far-fetched or insulting idea. And it's more charitable than thinking he's just a bad person for holding the views he has voiced here.

 

[Ginkgo]

I had no idea lay people could diagnose people with mental illness over the Internet within a few posts.

There seems to be a tendency both here and throughout the western world to want to dismiss not just the ideas of racists, but racists themselves. I'm not sure there's a difference here between his viewpoint and the "nature of his thinking." If a racist's ideas are so bad (and they are mostly silly) why bother venturing into personal territory like this? Can't you just accept that this guy had a bad experience, was a legitimate victim, and that affected his views? It just seems like an attempt to delegitimize his views by attacking him personally. He's making terribly baseless arguments, but I don't see the point in trying to dismiss him as a person when his arguments are so easy to dismiss.

I'm not dismissing him as a person. If I was, I wouldn't be talking to him.

 

[Valiant]

Perhaps this is still something you could strive for, you know. I don't see why that's got to be tossed to the wayside, entirely. It's not like there's a deadline for these things.

True. But it's far away. There will most definitely be war in Europe.
Not soon, but the way leading there won't be pleasant, either.
Most countries are quietly preparing for major civil unrest or rebellion.
Switzerland are doing so overtly, and are open about it having to do with mass-immigration.

It is really inconvenient, I even met the girl I want to marry.
We're both fighting this, but we knew each other from before.
I just worry that it won't be much of a future.
Might even go to jail for hatespeech, defending myself or others against "minorities".
Like the situation with your brother. If someone decides to make me an example.
Thankfully, we are growing a lot now.

Thanks to people who are willing to speak up.
It's good to know I won't be remembered as the coward who did nothing, or the traitor who sold his identity and people for comfort and acceptance.

 

[Valiant]

Perhaps this is still something you could strive for, you know. I don't see why that's got to be tossed to the wayside, entirely. It's not like there's a deadline for these things.

True. But it's far away. There will most definitely be war in Europe.
Not soon, but the way leading there won't be pleasant, either.
Most countries are quietly preparing for major civil unrest or rebellion.
Switzerland are doing so overtly, and are open about it having to do with mass-immigration.

It is really inconvenient, I even met the girl I want to marry.
We're both fighting this, but we knew each other from before.
I just worry that it won't be much of a future.
Might even go to jail for hatespeech, defending myself or others against "minorities".
Like the situation with your brother. If someone decides to make me an example.
Thankfully, we are growing a lot now.

Thanks to people who are willing to speak up.
It's good to know I won't be remembered as the coward who did nothing, or the traitor who sold his identity and people for comfort and acceptance.

 

[Orangey]

I had no idea lay people could diagnose people with mental illness over the Internet within a few posts.

There seems to be a tendency both here and throughout the western world to want to dismiss not just the ideas of racists, but racists themselves. I'm not sure there's a difference here between his viewpoint and the "nature of his thinking." If a racist's ideas are so bad (and they are mostly silly) why bother venturing into personal territory like this? Can't you just accept that this guy had a bad experience, was a legitimate victim, and that affected his views? It just seems like an attempt to delegitimize his views by attacking him personally. He's making terribly baseless arguments, but I don't see the point in trying to dismiss him as a person when his arguments are so easy to dismiss.

"Attempt to delegitimize his views?" You must be cray. His views ARE illegitimate. In fact, they're so obviously illegitimate that the more interesting question is not how his views are wrong, but rather why he holds such ridiculous views in the first place.

 

[Beorn]

Why is speculating that his opinions are informed by his traumatic experience (which you did also: "this guy had a bad experience, was a legitimate victim, and that affected his views") "trying to dismiss him as a person"? People who struggle with PTSD, which includes me in the past, are still people. I'm not saying Valiant has PTSD but I don't think it's a far-fetched or insulting idea. And it's more charitable than thinking he's just a bad person for holding the views he has voiced here.

Merely saying it affected his views and calling him a sufferer of a mental illness who's views are merely a delusion that cause paranoia are two very different things. He doesn't make any allowance for Valient to be worthy of rational discourse because his views all stem from delusion and paranoia.

I don't think it's charitable at all. I think it's very demeaning.

I'm not dismissing him as a person. If I was, I wouldn't be talking to him.

My gripe is more with MP.

 

[Valiant]

"Attempt to delegitimize his views?" You must be cray. His views ARE illegitimate. In fact, they're so obviously illegitimate that the more interesting question is not how his views are wrong, but rather why he holds such ridiculous views in the first place.

“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” - Voltaire.

The Holocaust never happened. The jews are not victims of industrialized genocide, and never were.
There. Now tell me, what is your reaction to that? Yes, I am a horrible heretic for saying such things.

Think.

 

[Orangey]

“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” - Voltaire.

The Holocaust never happened. The jews are not victims of industrialized genocide, and never were.
There. Now tell me, what is your reaction to that? Yes, I am a horrible heretic for saying such things.

Think.

My reaction is that you've got a juvenile mind.

 

[Valiant]

My reaction is that you've got a juvenile mind.

Well, at least I retain my neuroplasticity, then.
Joking aside... Why juvenile?
Because I don't agree with you?
Please. Humor me.