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  1. #71
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    When do you think someone qualifies as mentally ill? I don't call anyone who disagrees with my crazy. I'm calling him crazy because of the particular nature of his thinking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    It seems like trauma has left him with the opinions he harbors.
    I had no idea lay people could diagnose people with mental illness over the Internet within a few posts.

    There seems to be a tendency both here and throughout the western world to want to dismiss not just the ideas of racists, but racists themselves. I'm not sure there's a difference here between his viewpoint and the "nature of his thinking." If a racist's ideas are so bad (and they are mostly silly) why bother venturing into personal territory like this? Can't you just accept that this guy had a bad experience, was a legitimate victim, and that affected his views? It just seems like an attempt to delegitimize his views by attacking him personally. He's making terribly baseless arguments, but I don't see the point in trying to dismiss him as a person when his arguments are so easy to dismiss.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  2. #72
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Why is speculating that his opinions are informed by his traumatic experience (which you did also: "this guy had a bad experience, was a legitimate victim, and that affected his views") "trying to dismiss him as a person"? People who struggle with PTSD, which includes me in the past, are still people. I'm not saying Valiant has PTSD because I agree that it's bad form to diagnose over the internet, but I don't think it's a far-fetched or insulting idea. And it's more charitable than thinking he's just a bad person for holding the views he has voiced here.

  3. #73
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I had no idea lay people could diagnose people with mental illness over the Internet within a few posts.

    There seems to be a tendency both here and throughout the western world to want to dismiss not just the ideas of racists, but racists themselves. I'm not sure there's a difference here between his viewpoint and the "nature of his thinking." If a racist's ideas are so bad (and they are mostly silly) why bother venturing into personal territory like this? Can't you just accept that this guy had a bad experience, was a legitimate victim, and that affected his views? It just seems like an attempt to delegitimize his views by attacking him personally. He's making terribly baseless arguments, but I don't see the point in trying to dismiss him as a person when his arguments are so easy to dismiss.
    I'm not dismissing him as a person. If I was, I wouldn't be talking to him.

  4. #74
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    Perhaps this is still something you could strive for, you know. I don't see why that's got to be tossed to the wayside, entirely. It's not like there's a deadline for these things.
    True. But it's far away. There will most definitely be war in Europe.
    Not soon, but the way leading there won't be pleasant, either.
    Most countries are quietly preparing for major civil unrest or rebellion.
    Switzerland are doing so overtly, and are open about it having to do with mass-immigration.

    It is really inconvenient, I even met the girl I want to marry.
    We're both fighting this, but we knew each other from before.
    I just worry that it won't be much of a future.
    Might even go to jail for hatespeech, defending myself or others against "minorities".
    Like the situation with your brother. If someone decides to make me an example.
    Thankfully, we are growing a lot now.

    Thanks to people who are willing to speak up.
    It's good to know I won't be remembered as the coward who did nothing, or the traitor who sold his identity and people for comfort and acceptance.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  5. #75
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    Perhaps this is still something you could strive for, you know. I don't see why that's got to be tossed to the wayside, entirely. It's not like there's a deadline for these things.
    True. But it's far away. There will most definitely be war in Europe.
    Not soon, but the way leading there won't be pleasant, either.
    Most countries are quietly preparing for major civil unrest or rebellion.
    Switzerland are doing so overtly, and are open about it having to do with mass-immigration.

    It is really inconvenient, I even met the girl I want to marry.
    We're both fighting this, but we knew each other from before.
    I just worry that it won't be much of a future.
    Might even go to jail for hatespeech, defending myself or others against "minorities".
    Like the situation with your brother. If someone decides to make me an example.
    Thankfully, we are growing a lot now.

    Thanks to people who are willing to speak up.
    It's good to know I won't be remembered as the coward who did nothing, or the traitor who sold his identity and people for comfort and acceptance.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  6. #76
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I had no idea lay people could diagnose people with mental illness over the Internet within a few posts.

    There seems to be a tendency both here and throughout the western world to want to dismiss not just the ideas of racists, but racists themselves. I'm not sure there's a difference here between his viewpoint and the "nature of his thinking." If a racist's ideas are so bad (and they are mostly silly) why bother venturing into personal territory like this? Can't you just accept that this guy had a bad experience, was a legitimate victim, and that affected his views? It just seems like an attempt to delegitimize his views by attacking him personally. He's making terribly baseless arguments, but I don't see the point in trying to dismiss him as a person when his arguments are so easy to dismiss.
    "Attempt to delegitimize his views?" You must be cray. His views ARE illegitimate. In fact, they're so obviously illegitimate that the more interesting question is not how his views are wrong, but rather why he holds such ridiculous views in the first place.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  7. #77
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Why is speculating that his opinions are informed by his traumatic experience (which you did also: "this guy had a bad experience, was a legitimate victim, and that affected his views") "trying to dismiss him as a person"? People who struggle with PTSD, which includes me in the past, are still people. I'm not saying Valiant has PTSD but I don't think it's a far-fetched or insulting idea. And it's more charitable than thinking he's just a bad person for holding the views he has voiced here.
    Merely saying it affected his views and calling him a sufferer of a mental illness who's views are merely a delusion that cause paranoia are two very different things. He doesn't make any allowance for Valient to be worthy of rational discourse because his views all stem from delusion and paranoia.

    I don't think it's charitable at all. I think it's very demeaning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    I'm not dismissing him as a person. If I was, I wouldn't be talking to him.
    My gripe is more with MP.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  8. #78
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    "Attempt to delegitimize his views?" You must be cray. His views ARE illegitimate. In fact, they're so obviously illegitimate that the more interesting question is not how his views are wrong, but rather why he holds such ridiculous views in the first place.
    “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” - Voltaire.

    The Holocaust never happened. The jews are not victims of industrialized genocide, and never were.
    There. Now tell me, what is your reaction to that? Yes, I am a horrible heretic for saying such things.

    Think.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  9. #79
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant View Post
    “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” - Voltaire.

    The Holocaust never happened. The jews are not victims of industrialized genocide, and never were.
    There. Now tell me, what is your reaction to that? Yes, I am a horrible heretic for saying such things.

    Think.
    My reaction is that you've got a juvenile mind.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  10. #80
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    My reaction is that you've got a juvenile mind.
    Well, at least I retain my neuroplasticity, then.
    Joking aside... Why juvenile?
    Because I don't agree with you?
    Please. Humor me.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

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