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  1. #251
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    If you think about it really, this is all @Bamboo's fault.
    Pssssssh I just asked a question and you just had to go and answer it, didn't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Isn't everything?
    That means I also get all the credit for anything good that happens, yeah? Cha-ching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Not all taxidermy is good taxidermy, @Bamboo. Let this be a warning to you:

    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  2. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I think what you're doing is actually more ludicrous. I'm just making a rough guess, putting it somewhere in the general area of mental illness because of some broad but very cliche patterns. You on the other hand act like you can analyze peoples' minds using the processes with mechanical precision. You are simultaneously claiming more detailed and accurate analysis than me while using a far less academically supported basis for doing it.
    Because you cannot, absolutely cannot, assign psychosis to anyone. It can even be difficult for psychologists sometimes to tell the difference between bipolar disorder and borderline personality disorder, just as an example.

    I know because I think I've spent significantly more time studying mental illness than yourself. He actually isn't showing symptoms of schizophrenia. You could say his intensity is due to bipolar mania, but it could just as easily not.

    Other people in this thread aren't terribly good at it either. I've actually seen people on this forum call me a narcissist, not even realizing that narcissists lack empathy, and I've been thoroughly psychoanalyzed; no traces of narcissism.

    There's absolutely no academic basis for you calling someone mentally ill because they embrace a radically different value system than yourself. It would be like you calling Mormons, Quakers, and Hare Krishnas mentally ill.

    Good luck with that. Really.





    Why on earth should that make me think he isn't mentally ill? Really, you might as well have said "everything he says is in line with his cult! It must be sane!".
    White nationalism isn't a cult. LOL. It's not any more of a cult than being an Objectivist or a Tea Partier or believing in Occupy Wall Street is a cult.

    Please look up signs of a cult. Thanks.

    I'm taking you less and less seriously by the second. Your baby ISFJ is showing.


    Even calling it loosely tied to European history might be too much credit. A phrase like "exaggerated fear response" doesn't lend itself well to the notion that these thoughts are perfectly healthy.



    I mention my paper in college (and as it happens I'm a sociology major seeking a PhD) because you keep talking in a way that implies you are privy to some sort of knowledge that I'm not, that allows you to see the truth about this. I'm assuming you are not privy to any knowledge I'm not. You have to cut that entire pretense, because I will not regard it.
    I am privy to knowledge you are not. You've read about it in books and judged it by your own (apparently faulty and biased) standards, while I've actually spent a great deal of time actually conversing with these people, trying to see their point of view, and studying the resurgence of nationalism in general.

    I am privy to information because I've actually talked to the people without treating them like psychotics, I've attempted to compare the sociological phenomenon to civilizations in recent history (very recent history, included, nationalism was popular until about mid-20th century) and I think just studied the subject more specifically and sympathetically than yourself.

    I've had to deal with people like you before. One INTP I know has a PhD in Philosophy, specialization in Kant, and he's very uber-brainwashed extremist liberal, he has very intense Fe ethics that mirror the most extremist forms of multi-cultural liberalism, and I also don't take his opinion on the matter very seriously; just because you've gone to graduate school doesn't mean you're equipped to deal with every subject, especially a subject that clearly causes you to have a deep and irrational emotional response.

    I've not specifically spent time on a white supremacist forum, but I've looked into other forums that are basically made of deviant cliques. I remember how my one friend found this forum that catered to a sort of mix of survivalism and over-the-top skepticism. So it was common knowledge that the moon landing was a hoax, and the government was approaching collapse, and + 90% of the population are sheeple. That sort of thing. Yes, there were many people on this forum (and I'm sure there were many others like it). They supported each other with sort of a mutual sub-culture. They had their own slang. They had their own, fairly internally consistent version of history, their own logical conclusions which kind of made sense if you accepted some of their ridiculous premises, and their own motives which definitely made sense if you accepted their logical conclusions. You know what? I still think they were fucking crazy.
    That's nice. Not that many people are "mentally ill." Don't over assign mental illness to people. It leads to a huge misunderstanding of basic human motives.

    I can see what saying, I just can't see how it means someone like Valiant isn't mentally ill. This is a part you're getting stuck on. I can accepted everything you say here except for the part about Valiant not being mentally ill, and I can't see how we get from point A to point B, even though I can comprehend both point A and B.

    I don't think you can Godwin a topic about white supremacists, so let's bring up Hitler. I think by the criteria you're using here, Hitler would not be mentally ill. I personally think Hitler was mentally ill.
    Hitler was mentally ill. But the entire country of Germany was anti-Semitic at the time. They weren't all mentally ill. Stop generalizing so much, it's really silly.



    We can agree on one thing; it doesn't deviate from his personality or past character. I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove, though.
    You and Beorn (and Valiant) are the ones hung up on this whole thing about not liking it. Me and those roughly on my end of the argument are telling you that he's being crazy regardless of applying any value judgments to it.
    And I'm saying you aren't at all qualified to diagnose it. You don't seem to have an especially adept understanding of the human mind, though I admit you're quite good with political systems.

    If he had a psychotic break with reality, his behavior wouldn't follow rationally consistent patterns with his personality.

    Have a day, Professor Killjoy.

  3. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Seventy years before Jesus, Spartacus attacked institutional slavery and defeated the Roman Slave Empire nine times. Jesus could have followed in the footsteps of Spartacus but he decided to say nothing about institutional Roman slavery.

    And worse, the Bible supports slavery in Ephesians 6:5 -

    Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.


    And the Bible continues to support slavery in Colossians 3:22 -

    Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.


    And not content with Ephesian 6:5 and Collossians 3:22, the Bible tells us in Peter 2:18 -

    Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.
    If you'd look more deeply into this Victor, instead of taking those verses out of contexts like a greedy slave owner intent on using them to jusify slavery, the Bible also says if someone slaps you to turn the other cheek and allow them to slap the other. If a man tries to steal your cloak, give him your shirt too. It isn't saying slavery is good, it's saying don't repay evil with evil.

    Jesus said there is no differentiation between races or slaves and free men in the eyes of God. It would be like using the turn the other cheek analogy and saying that means the Bible also says you should go around slapping people, or stealing their cloaks.

    Furthermore, some people additionally attribute it to a poor translation, which would better be translated in modern times as "servants" rather than "slaves."

  4. #254
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Things would probably be more heated if we were minimizing the number of Christian deaths in various times and places around the world.

    Thank goodness we all have permission to speak freely.
    And then... he was banned.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #255
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    In fact I'd like to be more specific about this to help you out @Magic Poriferan.

    If something related to white nationalism is a cult, it would be like Neo-Nazi skinheads. That's a cult. They're very exclusive, live together, and often promote violence and actual hatred.

    In fact calling YLJ a "white nationalist" is probably incorrect, as he probably considers himself a nationalist specifically of his own country, which most European nationalism takes the form of each country striving to preserve its own country's traditions.

    "White" is more of an American construct than a European one, because Spaniards, Southern Italians and Greeks are often darker skinned, yet they still have the bone structure and over-all traits of Caucasians.

    When people call themselves white nationalists, it usually refers to some kind of global ideal of preserving things like white skin, blue eyes, blonde hair, and red hair; also straight light brown hair and things associated with European groups racially.

    European preservationists are usually more concerned with preserving European culture in the face of mass immigration in Europe, and in some parts of the U.S...often these people aren't at all concerned with skin color or with hating other races in the slightest, but simply with European history and culture, and the potentially marginalizing of people of European descent because of over-zealous "white people are evil" types of liberals. And yes, the "white people are evil" liberals do exist, and that isn't any more healthy than demonizing any other race or culture; as a matter of fact, the Japanese and the Jews have a rich history of being racists, and the Ottoman Empire in Central Asia was the world power long before Western European peoples. There's nothing inherent about European or "white" people that makes them "evil" or any more prone to racism; racism is a human trait that grows out of in-group fears, spanning back to times when people really did have to protect their tribes and lands from warring others.

    YLJ seems to be of the more racist variety, and he seems quite taken with the mythology of his culture; neither of these things are insane. Also, saying he's going to marry a European woman and have a lot of white babies and preserve his own culture is in no way "insane." You'll meet people from cultures all over the world who say things like this. I have Asian friends whose parents strongly encourage them to marry other Asians, for example.

    If YLJ starts to talk about hurting or killing people of other races, then I'll become concerned that he's joined some kind of sick cult; but even then, he may not be mentally ill, but just a morally reprehensible individual.

    There are forms of human paranoia that are not mentally ill; I believe the tendency to be territorial is completely natural, and you see it more in cultures where people value family territory over large scale authority systems, such as "honor cultures."

    Calling something mentally ill because you don't like it or don't understand it or find it morally repugnant is simply incorrect. I have long been on a mission to understand why Objectivists believe as they do, why Southern conservative evangelical Republicans believe as they do, and by the same token, have strived to understand the resurgence in European nationalism. Republicans and nationalists tend to share a common bond, and that is essentially fear of their land and traditions being eroded, which isn't an "insane" fear, it's just a different way of seeing the world.

    Objectivists on the other hand seem to be more motivated by real selfishness and greed, and I think that's probably the case in extreme forms of white nationalism or neo-Nazi racism, in which case I find them both morally reprehensible.

    I also don't take Nico's opinion of YLJ very seriously, as he actually believed I'm so stupid or crazy that I actually believe that my yoga instructors are the only sane people I know.

    So overall, I don't feel I'm dealing with a very reliable group of analysts here.

  6. #256
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Can we all just admit that mental ill is a construct in the first place??? We label undesirable differences from normal behavior as mental illness. Is there anything inherently wrong with being bipolar? I'd say no, it just clashes with the was the majority of humanity lives. We label things too far outside of typically behavior "abnormal" and then try to correct those errant behaviors.

    I'm not suggesting we shouldn't treat the mentally ill...... Only that squabbling over when it's appropriate to use the term crazy is stupid. Crazy is generally used for abnormal behavior. If someone had gone as far as to label him with a specific disease then we could fight about it. But I me crazy is a pretty relative term.

  7. #257
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Furthermore, some people additionally attribute it to a poor translation, which would better be translated in modern times as "servants" rather than "slaves."
    Really we should probably develop a more fluid concept of what slavery is anyway. Doing so would keep any group from patting itself on the back too much, and instead focus attention on rooting out modern versions of slavery or slave like practices whether it's H1B visas or usurious advance pay firms in the hood.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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  8. #258
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    If you'd look more deeply into this Victor, instead of taking those verses out of contexts like a greedy slave owner intent on using them to jusify slavery, the Bible also says if someone slaps you to turn the other cheek and allow them to slap the other. If a man tries to steal your cloak, give him your shirt too. It isn't saying slavery is good, it's saying don't repay evil with evil.

    Jesus said there is no differentiation between races or slaves and free men in the eyes of God. It would be like using the turn the other cheek analogy and saying that means the Bible also says you should go around slapping people, or stealing their cloaks.

    Furthermore, some people additionally attribute it to a poor translation, which would better be translated in modern times as "servants" rather than "slaves."
    The problem isn't what is in the Bible. It is what people do with it.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #259
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    If you'd look more deeply into this Victor, instead of taking those verses out of contexts like a greedy slave owner intent on using them to jusify slavery, the Bible also says if someone slaps you to turn the other cheek and allow them to slap the other. If a man tries to steal your cloak, give him your shirt too. It isn't saying slavery is good, it's saying don't repay evil with evil.

    Jesus said there is no differentiation between races or slaves and free men in the eyes of God. It would be like using the turn the other cheek analogy and saying that means the Bible also says you should go around slapping people, or stealing their cloaks.

    Furthermore, some people additionally attribute it to a poor translation, which would better be translated in modern times as "servants" rather than "slaves."
    Institutional slavery existed right up to 1833 when it was abolished for the first time in history.

    Of course you can't believe Jesus was a bad person, so you can't believe he supported institutional slavery. And you can't believe the Bible is a bad book, so you can't believe the Bible supports institutional slavery.

    And good heavens, surely you are reaching beyond your grasp by turning slaves into servants.

  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Really we should probably develop a more fluid concept of what slavery is anyway. Doing so would keep any group from patting itself on the back too much, and instead focus attention on rooting out modern versions of slavery or slave like practices whether it's H1B visas or usurious advance pay firms in the hood.
    We are talking about institutional slavery, that is, we are talking about the legal ownership of persons protected by the law.

    And legal, institutional slavery was abolished for the first time in history by the House of Commons in 1833.

    And of course illegal slavery exists today, in particular in the form of people trafficing. And just yesterday Pope Francis I spoke out against illegal slavery in the form of people trafficing.

    And indeed the Australian Federal Police investigate people trafficing and refer the matter to our Public Prosecutor to take to our Criminal Courts.

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