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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Oh I responded to what you said. I said you lack perspective if you think embracing Buddhist philosophy is an allegiance or support of violence of certain groups of people who happen to call themselves Buddhists.

    Hope that clears it right up for you.
    My dear Marmotini, my dear marmot, I am happy you are here and I am not going to have a stand up fight with you.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    My dear Marmotini, my dear marmot, I am happy you are here and I am not going to have a stand up fight with you.
    Thanks Victor. But I'm not trying to fight.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    It's almost as if you're on an MBTI discussion forum....
    This may come as a surprise to you but it makes no difference to a critical thinker where they are.

    On a MBTI forum they will critique MBTI, and on a Quantum Mechanical forum they will critique Quantum Mechanics.

    Of course critical thinking does produce cognitive dissonance, and cogitive dissonance is emotionally painful.

    And usually the naive thinker will blame their emotional pain on the critical thinker. Their motto is, "Blame the messenger, take no responsibility for my own emotional pain".

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    This may come as a surprise to you but it makes no difference to a critical thinker where they are.

    On a MBTI forum they will critique MBTI, and on a Quantum Mechanical forum they will critique Quantum Mechanics.

    Of course critical thinking does produce cognitive dissonance, and cogitive dissonance is emotionally painful.

    And usually the naive thinker will blame their emotional pain on the critical thinker. Their motto is, "Blame the messenger, take no responsibility for my own emotional pain".
    Actually I was calling you out on YOU not thinking critically, not experiencing emotional pain, Victor.

    You aren't thinking critically if you think embracing a doctrine or belief system somehow is in support of sects of people who did bad but human things in the name of that faith.

    The way you go on about Islam tells me a lot, and it tells me you aren't really thinking clearly, but polarizing and demonizing that which you don't understand.

    If you were brave enough to peer something like Islam in the face, and try to empathize with and understand why those people believe what they believe, you may be surprised at what you learn not only about Islam, but about a chain of other seemingly unrelated things.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Actually I was calling you out on YOU not thinking critically, not experiencing emotional pain, Victor.

    You aren't thinking critically if you think embracing a doctrine or belief system somehow is in support of sects of people who did bad but human things in the name of that faith.

    The way you go on about Islam tells me a lot, and it tells me you aren't really thinking clearly, but polarizing and demonizing that which you don't understand.

    If you were brave enough to peer something like Islam in the face, and try to empathize with and understand why those people believe what they believe, you may be surprised at what you learn not only about Islam, but about a chain of other seemingly unrelated things.
    You see, by criticising me personally, you put me on the defensive, and tempt me to criticise you personally. And personal criticisms feed on themselves and lead to a flame.

    So rather than criticising me or anyone else personally, I invite you to criticise ideas instead of criticising persons.

    So critical thinking is about critiquing ideas, it is not about criticising persons.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    You see, by criticising me personally, you put me on the defensive, and tempt me to criticise you personally. And personal criticisms feed on themselves and lead to a flame.

    So rather than criticising me or anyone else personally, I invite you to criticise ideas instead of criticising persons.
    I'm criticizing your entire framework approach, which is why it feels like a personal attack, because your entire approach is the problem. I am criticizing the way you think about this stuff, yeah.

    It's so black and white.

    You never get past the phase where you polarize, you don't separate ideas or doctrines from the actions of some of the people who practice them.

    This is a common enough human trait, but really, I think the way you go around doing it constantly is pretty offensive, yet you don't want anyone to criticize you for doing it.

    I'm trying to point out flaws in your analysis, not say you're a bad person, Victor.


  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I'm criticizing your entire framework approach, which is why it feels like a personal attack, because your entire approach is the problem. I am criticizing the way you think about this stuff, yeah.

    It's so black and white.

    You never get past the phase where you polarize, you don't separate ideas or doctrines from the actions of some of the people who practice them.

    This is a common enough human trait, but really, I think the way you go around doing it constantly is pretty offensive, yet you don't want anyone to criticize you for doing it.

    I'm trying to point out flaws in your analysis, not say you're a bad person, Victor.

    I may or may not be a bad person. But freedom of speech means nothing without the freedom to offend.

    And indeed I do think in black and white just as the printed word is in black and white. I seek out the two poles. Usually only one pole is mentioned in order to persuade so I mention the other pole. Naturally this is felt as undermining by the persuader.

    The problem criticising the way I think is that I am tempted to criticise you back, and this leads to a flame, which is anti-social.

    The solution is to realise I am intelligent with integrity, and step up to the plate, and leave personal criticism behind.

    Remember I am fond of you and I am fond of ideas, but I will only criticise ideas, I won't criticise you.

    With a bit of luck.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I may or may not be a bad person. But freedom of speech means nothing without the freedom to offend.

    And indeed I do think in black and white just as the printed word is in black and white. I seek out the two poles. Usually only one pole is mentioned in order to persuade so I mention the other pole. Naturally this is felt as undermining by the persuader.

    The problem criticising the way I think is that I am tempted to criticise you back, and this leads to a flame, which is anti-social.

    The solution is to realise I am intelligent with integrity, and step up to the plate, and leave personal criticism behind.

    Remember I am fond of you and I am fond of ideas, but I will only criticise ideas, I won't criticise you.

    With a bit of luck.
    I'm criticizing cognitive bias.

    You can't take up what I'm saying into consideration at all? That JUST MAYBE you conflate religions too much with extremist groups, rather conveniently?

    It was really freeing for me to learn about how differently the Muslim faith manifests in different countries, when it's divorced from certain archaic cultural ways existing in Central Asian countries that has very little to do with Islam.

    And Buddhism frees many people from their inner suffering and gives them enlightened perspectives; all Buddhists aren't murderers any more than all middle school gym teachers are pederasts.

    Maybe some Buddhists are murderers, but then they aren't actually following Buddhist teaching in the slightest. And being a middle school gym teacher has zero to do with wanting to inappropriately touch or rape adolescents who are not yet sexually mature, but it may be a convenient hide out for some pederasts.

    Do you see what I am saying Victor?

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    @Valiant probably isn't mentally ill just because you don't agree with him; entire countries of people are racist nationalists, white nationalism is not comparable to a serial killer in San Francisco thinking a homeless man was a Biblical prophet who told him to murder.

    I don't support his views at all, but describing him as psychotic is probably not at all true.
    Just to put this into perspective: Not long ago you said you probably knew only one sane person; you constantly attribute mental illnesses to people on and off the forum, usually on the basis of no more evidence than already provided in this case; but Valiant, who believes age-old and well-refuted conspiracy theories and obvious more recent lies, who dedicates all his efforts to a hateful cause, and engages in mono-themed discussions with the apparent intent to recruit soldiers for an army in pursuit of a racist war across Europe - he just has a different opinion.

    The only constant here is that you are arguing strange points.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Just to put this into perspective: Not long ago you said you probably knew only one sane person; you constantly attribute mental illnesses to people on and off the forum, usually on the basis of no more evidence than already provided in this case; but Valiant, who believes age-old and well-refuted conspiracy theories and obvious more recent lies, who dedicates all his efforts to a hateful cause, and engages in mono-themed discussions with the apparent intent to recruit soldiers for an army in pursuit of a racist war across Europe - he just has a different opinion.

    The only constant here is that you are arguing strange points.
    I don't think I've SERIOUSLY attempted to diagnose ANYONE on the forum with anything, however I may have attributed malicious motives to people when there were none in certain incidents.

    I do know a fair number people with personality disorders, and I never said I only knew one sane person, I know A TON of people, and I just happen to talk about maybe three people with personality disorders, which actually isn't the same thing as being psychotic, personality disorders are common in people abused as children, or who experienced extreme loss or neglect.

    I said the sanest people I know are some of my yoga instructors, and that's because of their level of enlightenment mentally and spiritually that they have relatively lower neurosis (although all people are neurotic) than many other people.

    That doesn't mean they're the only sane people I know.

    I'm not actually arguing anything strange at all. I think I'm one of the few people not spewing their moral bias all over this and translating it into "omgz you're insane."

    I've noticed that people don't like for others to change or grow, either. I've noticed it a lot on this forum, like if you didn't know something last year, how could you know it now.

    People grow. The only thing that stays the same is that things change.

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