User Tag List

First 6141516171826 Last

Results 151 to 160 of 285

  1. #151
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,805

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
    I'm quite serious.

    You overestimate the power and ability of rationalization. You don't appreciate that rationalization is always based on unprovable presumptions.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  2. #152
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,130

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant View Post
    No, it wasn't legitimate.
    But that entire war was a huge clusterf*ck.
    Innocents did get caught in the crossfire.
    They always are. I definitely don't deny that.
    Hundreds of thousands killed on purpose. That's a Holocaust!

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant View Post
    The truth always gets out sooner or later.
    It's been 68 years now. It is time for the war propaganda against Germany to cease, and for the truth to get out.
    The truth is out. You already admit it in the principle, now you only need to adjust the details.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant View Post
    They did have such orders. No orders to kill them all has ever been turned up.
    The only thing that mentions genocide is an alleged speech by Heinrich Himmler and a forged diary by I think Göring, both of which have been proven fake at a later date.
    There is a diary entry from Goebbels, an entry that even David Irving confirms to be original. There are loads of other documents, of course. No, they have not been proven fake.

  3. #153
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    EIE
    Posts
    3,919

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Hundreds of thousands killed on purpose. That's a Holocaust!


    The truth is out. You already admit it in the principle, now you only need to adjust the details.


    There is a diary entry from Goebbels, an entry that even David Irving confirms to be original. There are loads of other documents, of course. No, they have not been proven fake.
    It was war. People die. Especially enemies, and sadly those close to those enemies.
    So you are saying that the americans are committing a holocaust against the arabs and others right now?
    Over a million died because of the sanctions against Iraq. Even BEFORE the war ever started.
    As you might understand, many more have died since.

    War is ugly business, and people die.
    What makes the jews so damn special?
    They as a group are not even particularly innocent.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  4. #154
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I'm quite serious.

    You overestimate the power and ability of rationalization. You don't appreciate that rationalization is always based on unprovable presumptions.
    Oh my, a subjectivist.

    I remember this psychotic serial killer in San Francisco. He killed a homeless man who he believed was a reborn Biblical prophet (I forget which one), claiming that he was asked to kill him and also informed that he must continue killing other people to prevent the great earthquake from hitting California now that the Vietnam war had ended and was no longer supplying a steady stream of sacrifices. This man sincerely believed these things. He had absolute faith. He even tried to act as his own lawyer in court and prove it all. My question for you, Beorn, is how we should have regarded that man's beliefs? How much benefit of the doubt should we have given him?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  5. #155
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    The problem is that it seems to me that people who focus on tolerating ideas are less likely to be tolerant of people. Or, maybe my complaint with Orangey and MP is also somewhat linked to what Christopher Hitchens once said, "I learned that very often the most intolerant and narrow-minded people are the ones who congratulate themselves on their tolerance and open-mindedness."
    What are you talking about? Who ever said anything about tolerance? It's not like I came into this thread extolling the virtues of tolerance and then turned around and said, "hey, YLJ/Valiant, you have no right to exist. Go die!" If I had done that, then you might have a case for hypocrisy. But as it is, I never said ANYTHING whatsoever about tolerance, and I never made any statements to the effect that YLJ is a worthless piece of shit who needs to go die in a fire. All I said, and all ANYONE is saying, is that his opinions are worthless (on the most basic factual and ethical levels) and maybe he should seek therapy because they seem, in this case, to seriously be the result of some variety of mental/emotional disturbance.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  6. #156
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,805

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Oh my, a subjectivist.

    I remember this psychotic serial killer in San Francisco. He killed a homeless man who he believed was a reborn Biblical prophet (I forget which one), claiming that he was asked to kill him and also informed that he must continue killing other people to prevent the great earthquake from hitting California now that the Vietnam war had ended and was no longer supplying a steady stream of sacrifices. This man sincerely believed these things. He had absolute faith. He even tried to act as his own lawyer in court and prove it all. My question for you, Beorn, is how we should have regarded that man's beliefs? How much benefit of the doubt should we have given him?
    I wouldn't call myself a subjectivist, I think objective truth can be grasped, but people don't realize that it's faith along with rationality that enables them to grasp objective truth.

    I don't see what your example has to do with anything, but I'll answer anyway. It sounds as if his delusion only affected why he was doing something and not what he was doing. He's still guilty of murder because he intended to kill someone. If he had thought the gun was a magic squirt gun that shot rainbows that made people fall in love then he might not have had the requisite intent to commit murder.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  7. #157
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,130

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant View Post
    It was war. People die. Especially enemies, and sadly those close to those enemies.
    So you are saying that the americans are committing a holocaust against the arabs and others right now?
    If Fredrik Reinfeldt declared all black-haired people the enemy, had most of them detained and killed, I would say that is pretty much a Holocaust.

    By the way, how did the people who attacked you even know that you are a Swede? If I recall correctly, you look more like a Turk or an Italian. Did you wear a telling t-shirt?

  8. #158
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    EIE
    Posts
    3,919

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    If Fredrik Reinfeldt declared all black-haired people the enemy, had most of them detained and killed, I would say that is pretty much a Holocaust.

    By the way, how did the people who attacked you even know that you are a Swede? If I recall correctly, you look more like a Turk or an Italian. Did you wear a telling t-shirt?
    That is not the same thing, and there were never ordered to be killed. Prove it.
    Show me the order where they are ordered to be killed.

    I could pass for northern italian, yes. If you don't look at facial features.
    Facial-wise i'm of trönder type. Norwegian.
    I used to color my hair black, if that's what you mean. It's medium brown/reddish with light streaks.
    Don't have any unusual facial features, though.
    When I don't color my hair or go tanning in the winter, I look pretty damn normal. :b

    Besides. Italians are part of the white race. Turks are mixed.
    Not the same thing.

    Anyway, fire away. I know you're just trying to probe me for weakness, being the person you are.
    I'm going to bed now. Have fun slandering me and trying to destroy my reputation in whatever petty way you decide to go about it.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  9. #159
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I'm quite serious.

    You overestimate the power and ability of rationalization. You don't appreciate that rationalization is always based on unprovable presumptions.
    This...

    And the objection to pondering Valiants mental condition on the basis that doing so would be "othering" or "dehumanizing" him.

    Very postmodern.

    I don't think Pseudo is showing an over-appreciation for rationalization. Our inability to hold opinions we do not believe is simply the nature of the beast, and it follows that we are not entitled to that ability either, even in a sense of moral absolutism. If one is to play the devil's advocate, a measure of distance must come between one's actual stance and the lie they are pushing. The whole activity comprises the totality of one's relationship the the truth, which is dynamic, but remains the same in principle.

  10. #160
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    2,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I'm quite serious.

    You overestimate the power and ability of rationalization. You don't appreciate that rationalization is always based on unprovable presumptions.

    Of course the unknowns and undefineds are a huge category. which is why i am accepting of a variety of viewpoints. I would go as far as to say most things fit into acceptable. However, there are some views that are unacceptable. fo instance, Is the idea that women and men typically have the same number of teeth based on an unprovable presumption? I would say no.

Similar Threads

  1. Race, Culture and MBTI
    By animenagai in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 86
    Last Post: 07-10-2013, 10:27 PM
  2. Violence and Identity
    By Mole in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 07-27-2012, 10:57 PM
  3. believe and identity
    By The Machine Stops in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-10-2011, 07:54 PM
  4. [E9] Type 9 and Identity
    By DJAchtundvierzig in forum Enneatypes
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 02-04-2011, 10:49 AM
  5. [NT] Intelligence, growth, and identity
    By Argus in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 09-06-2009, 10:16 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO