User Tag List

First 91011121321 Last

Results 101 to 110 of 285

  1. #101
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    EIE
    Posts
    3,919

    Default

    Oh, come on. Magic Poriferan called me mentally ill, and Ginkgo said it in finer terms as well.
    I actually don't wish to report them, because I genuinely don't care for their opinions.
    Didn't then, don't now.

    I simply wanted to point out the blatant double-standard.
    If you tolerate that, you have to tolerate me.
    Or be a complete hypocrite.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  2. #102
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    MBTI
    iNfj
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    4,042

    Default

    I don't think having pride in one's race or gender entails sexism/racism/ a negative attitude toward the opposing category; for instance, if I believe I am beautiful it doesn't mean I think I am more beautiful than everyone else; perhaps I think everyone is (equally) beautiful (in some sense). It simply doesn't logically follow. True the two are often correlated, but they don't have to come together. I have a certain kind of sentimentality for the cultures from which I am descended. It is a personal connection. It is a celebration of the history of people. I have a similar sentimentality towards the gender polarity which I biologically express; but I believe the male gender is equally good. Once again it is a personal connection. Races and genders are separate properties of an underlying thing, but equal in value.

    Personally, though I identify in particular ways with my ethnicity and gender, they are only superficial qualities. They aren't really important in forming my identity. I really feel like I connect with all races and both genders about equally. If I were to suddenly wake up and be a different race and the opposite gender, I would be perfectly happy (although I'd be a little disappointed that I couldn't have babies), and I wouldn't really feel like I wasn't myself. I consider myself a person fundamentally and a citizen of the world. People are just people underneath all the superficial differences.

    But that doesn't mean that identifying with those differences is a bad thing- only that the person has a personal connection with them, and an enjoyment of them.

    Similarly, I am a member of a couple of minorities; in addition to being female, I am pagan and not exclusively heterosexual. I don't identify as these, but they have shaped my experiences and attitudes, which compose part of my identity. If I were to claim that being pagan did not in any way affect my individual characteristics as a person, that would be patently false. Similarly, if I were to claim that a copy of me which only lacked the quality of being sexually attracted to both genders would be in every other way identical, this would also be false. My beliefs about sexuality have been influenced by my preferences, my beliefs about other areas of life have been influenced by my beliefs about sexuality, and my entire philosophical system has been influenced by my beliefs about all of these.

  3. #103
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,547

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    This is just a really dangerous remark. Ironically referring to someone with differing viewpoints from you as mentally ill is just an excuse to treat them differently. I don't care how ridiculous their viewpoint seems.

    Where's all that tolerance I keep hearing about?
    That tolerance is reserved for the content of one's opinions and beliefs, not one's method of delivering or defending them. Failure to demonstrate an understanding of cause and effect, or to understand the need to support supposedly rational claims with logic and evidence may very well be signs of mental impairment. Tolerance might, for instance, lead us to be open to someone's belief in fairies. If they go on to claim that they can prove fairies exist because their brother took photos of the tooth fairy when they were growing up and eventually validated them against the Fairy Standard maintained at NIST, most people would take this is a joke, or a sign of questionable thinking. Not being a psychiatrist, I will make no claims in this particular case.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #104
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,805

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    That tolerance is reserved for the content of one's opinions and beliefs, not one's method of delivering or defending them. Failure to demonstrate an understanding of cause and effect, or to understand the need to support supposedly rational claims with logic and evidence may very well be signs of mental impairment. Tolerance might, for instance, lead us to be open to someone's belief in fairies. If they go on to claim that they can prove fairies exist because their brother took photos of the tooth fairy when they were growing up and eventually validated them against the Fairy Standard maintained at NIST, most people would take this is a joke, or a sign of questionable thinking. Not being a psychiatrist, I will make no claims in this particular case.
    I don't believe in tolerating the content of opinions and beliefs I disagree with. I believe in tolerating people. It's out of respect for the person that I listen to their ideas, not out of respect for their ideas.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  5. #105
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,547

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I don't believe in tolerating the content of opinions and beliefs I disagree with. I believe in tolerating people. It's out of respect for the person that I listen to their ideas, not out of respect for their ideas.
    Then your tolerance has limits, too, just different limits from mine. To me, tolerance includes being open to considering ideas I disagree with, but does not extend to factual error, poor/absent logic, ad hominem attacks, and outright lies, to name a few.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #106
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,805

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Then your tolerance has limits, too, just different limits from mine. To me, tolerance includes being open to considering ideas I disagree with, but does not extend to factual error, poor/absent logic, ad hominem attacks, and outright lies, to name a few.
    The problem is that it seems to me that people who focus on tolerating ideas are less likely to be tolerant of people. Or, maybe my complaint with Orangey and MP is also somewhat linked to what Christopher Hitchens once said, "I learned that very often the most intolerant and narrow-minded people are the ones who congratulate themselves on their tolerance and open-mindedness."
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  7. #107
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    EIE
    Posts
    3,919

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Then your tolerance has limits, too, just different limits from mine. To me, tolerance includes being open to considering ideas I disagree with, but does not extend to factual error, poor/absent logic, ad hominem attacks, and outright lies, to name a few.
    Oh wise one. Did you know that there is a 30 000£ reward that you can cash in on if you can prove that germans killed jews on an industrial scale?
    It is offered by David Irving, formerly a well-renowned historian from Britan. That is... Until he started digging and questioning things he shouldn't have.
    Well, what are you waiting for? Go dig up some real horrifying evidence that hasn't peen proven fake.

    So, who exactly is lying here? If you are so open-minded and tolerant, go take another look.
    Last time I checked, accusing someone of genocide requires actual proof.
    Hate to break it to you: there is none. Nada. Zip.

    Here's the head scientist at the Holocaust Museum at Auschwitz-Birkenau admitting to changes made after the war by the red army:


    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  8. #108
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,705

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    This is just a really dangerous remark. Ironically referring to someone with differing viewpoints from you as mentally ill is just an excuse to treat them differently.
    While I agree with the first sentence, the second is not necessarily true; holocaust denial necessitates (at minimum) the belief that 1.) millions of individuals from different countries and different walks of life (i.e. holocaust survivors, including Jews as well as others) were engaged in a conspiracy to lie about the holocaust, and 2.) somehow managed to coordinate their stories to that effect, all of which would imply a sort of paranoid delusion, possibly as a means of coping with traumatic experience through a misguided sense of empowerment and an extreme, frustrated overreaction to a personalized incident representing a (culture and policy-based) problem that mainstream Swedish society is reluctant to deal with right now, all after the losing faith in the Communist beliefs that had previously provided him with comfort, direction, and another category of scapegoat.

    Edit: should have read the rest of the thread concerning the timing of his new belief system, but I stand behind my point about conspiracy theories requiring millions of active participants.

  9. #109
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    EIE
    Posts
    3,919

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    While I agree with the first sentence, the second is not necessarily true; holocaust denial necessitates (at minimum) the belief that 1.) millions of individuals from different countries and different walks of life (i.e. holocaust survivors, including Jews as well as others) were engaged in a conspiracy to lie about the holocaust, and 2.) somehow managed to coordinate their stories to that effect, all of which would imply a sort of paranoid delusion, possibly as a means of coping with traumatic experience through a misguided sense of empowerment and an extreme, frustrated overreaction to a personalized incident representing a (culture and policy-based) problem that mainstream Swedish society is reluctant to deal with right now, all after the losing faith in the Communist beliefs that had previously provided him with comfort, direction, and another category of scapegoat.
    Hey, I was raised in a leftist family. I only came here because I witnessed reality in Europe, and I found out what's behind it all.
    Also, there aren't millions of witnesses. Never were. The whole thing comes from a few. Most in Steven Spielbergs' 50 000 interviews don't talk about gas chambers.
    They talk about harsh conditions, to be fair, but also about cinemas, soccer, camp orchestras and such.
    Also, those who did coordinate their story had plenty of time to do so, as the russians in particular kept them in the camp for months after the war ended.
    Is that really so hard to believe?



    They've talked about 6 million jews killed eversince 1919 or something like that. Claimed it in 1933, too.
    Did you also know that in the entire area that Germany controlled at its height, there only lived 3.5 million jews before the war?
    If lots of them got deported to Israel, England, the United States etc... Not to mention those who went to the Soviet Union.
    And if over 3 million people are getting holocaust survivor pensions after the war... Where did those extra 6 million jews come from?
    It's all got to do with their whole messiah crap. It says six million has to die before God's reign on earth comes.
    Not sure about the old testament/torah/talmudic stuff, that's not really my field.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  10. #110
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    EIE
    Posts
    3,919

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    While I agree with the first sentence, the second is not necessarily true; holocaust denial necessitates (at minimum) the belief that 1.) millions of individuals from different countries and different walks of life (i.e. holocaust survivors, including Jews as well as others) were engaged in a conspiracy to lie about the holocaust, and 2.) somehow managed to coordinate their stories to that effect, all of which would imply a sort of paranoid delusion, possibly as a means of coping with traumatic experience through a misguided sense of empowerment and an extreme, frustrated overreaction to a personalized incident representing a (culture and policy-based) problem that mainstream Swedish society is reluctant to deal with right now, all after the losing faith in the Communist beliefs that had previously provided him with comfort, direction, and another category of scapegoat.
    Hey, I was raised in a leftist family. I only came to where I am today because I witnessed reality in Europe, and I found out what's behind it all.
    Not because it was easy. I had to convince myself thoroughly by reading and researching this.
    Also, there aren't millions of witnesses. Never were. The whole thing comes from a few. Most in Steven Spielbergs' 50 000 interviews don't talk about gas chambers.
    They talk about harsh conditions, to be fair, but also about cinemas, soccer, camp orchestras and such.
    Also, those who did coordinate their story had plenty of time to do so, as the russians in particular kept them in the camp for months after the war ended.
    Is that really so hard to believe? Also look at the video provided above. The changes made to Auschwitz in 1947 is what made air raid shelters into "gas chambers" etc.
    It's all propaganda.

    They've talked about 6 million jews killed eversince 1919 or something like that. Claimed it in 1933, too.
    Did you also know that in the entire area that Germany controlled at its height, there only lived 3.5 million jews before the war?
    If lots of them got deported to Israel, England, the United States etc... And if over 3 million people are getting war reparations after the war...
    Where did those extra 6 million jews come from?
    It's all got to do with their whole kingdom of heaven crap. It says six million has to die before God's reign on earth comes.
    Not sure about the old testament/torah/talmudic stuff, that's not really my field.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

Similar Threads

  1. Race, Culture and MBTI
    By animenagai in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 86
    Last Post: 07-10-2013, 10:27 PM
  2. Violence and Identity
    By Mole in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 07-27-2012, 10:57 PM
  3. believe and identity
    By The Machine Stops in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-10-2011, 07:54 PM
  4. [E9] Type 9 and Identity
    By DJAchtundvierzig in forum Enneatypes
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 02-04-2011, 10:49 AM
  5. [NT] Intelligence, growth, and identity
    By Argus in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 09-06-2009, 10:16 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO