It seems that society just want us to live an ISTJ life

[Standuble]

ISTJs are the most boundlessly creative people in the Universe! Who woudn't want to follow their great ways?

They are also hilarious to watch. Especially when the situation requires innovative solutions and they start to freak out, blaming others for their problems. My ISTJ brother yesterday burnt himself four times when the food mixer lid kept coming off mid way through, shooting hot mixture all over him. Now someone sensible would perhaps put a towel over it or better yet cover themselves up with towels but no, he kept making the same mistake over and over without considering an alternate approach and became progressively more psychotic after each incident! It's funny providing he doesn't catch you laughing, after that his sensing nature takes over and you can expect a good old punch in the face. I'm expecting him home in an hour, I hope there is another comedy hour in store.

 

[Aesthete]

My father is an ISTJ, and he doesn't resemble the stereotype of ISTJs you're promoting more than non-ISTJs - he might, in fact, fit it even less!

 

[FDG]

It's mostly when you're in school. In western society, you are afterwards pretty much left to your own device. Yes, of course you need money to survive, and of course the easiest way is to walk the beaten path and become a very coscentious mid level employee. But that is hardly, hardly the only way. You can work 5 years in a factory, save money, and then say, create an itinerant food and wine truck and pretty much go where you want to. You will still need the money to survive. You can try to create a small new party in your hometown, and progressively rally higher. And so on.

(I'm not saying you can do everything, if you don't have a big amount of money as starting point. You won't be able to found a new automotive factory, for example. But there is some choice.)

 

[garbage]

Counterpoint: Most P's don't sleep in the streets or get laid off.

Why the hate on ISTJs for our social condition? Society is defined by corporatism. All CEOs are ENTJs. Thus ENTJs dictate the terms. If you're going to hate on anyone, it should be them.

 

[yenom]

Counterpoint: Most P's don't sleep in the streets or get laid off.

Why the hate on ISTJs for our social condition? Society is defined by corporatism. All CEOs are ENTJs. Thus ENTJs dictate the terms. If you're going to hate on anyone, it should be them.

First I never said I hated ISTJs, and I already repeated this many times in the thread. I just said society expected you to live an ISTJ life, whether you like to or not, and if aren't one too bad. There is consequences for not following society's expectations. Whether you choose to risk and break the code or not is up to you. It is kind of like a set of rules society force you to follow to fit into society. Although consequences may not be direct punishment, such as going to jail, but they do exist to limit your freedom. Of course if you have money, you can do whatever the fuck you want.

If you have money, you do not have to suffer another man's tyranny. And suffering another man's tyranny often requires you to be a compliant ISTJ.

Similar to what ygolo said about social programming. The typical life is already laid out and planned for you, and you are widely expected to follow that path, as I have seen in a insurance commercial.

I went to my friend's wedding two weekends ago, and my cousin's last weekend. They were both fun. It kinda made wonder: What's so bad about social programming? My social programming seems to get people working for fortune 500s, marrying other professionals who are fairly successful themselves. Most of my friends and family members are either doctors or engineers.

I suppose, the real danger of social programming is that if that is the only motivation for what you do, you could end up in a loveless marriage (though perhaps to a great partner) and working a joyless career (which may nevertheless give you great compensation).]

Second, P get laid of more often than Js because they refuse to conform to standards, especially if they don't conform to the 9 to 5 pm norm.

And I am not going to comment about ENTJs again because people are going to accuse me of bashing and spreading hate.

 

[yenom]

Although the title says relationship, but it seemed to depict the life of most risk averse average american couples seemed to have and illustrate my point.

 

[WALMART]

Although the title says relationship, but it seemed to depict the life of most risk averse average american couples seemed to have and illustrate my point.

This illustration is pathetically bleak.


Life is what you make it, particularly in America.

 

[Lark]

I havent read the thread but I just wanted to add that the ISTJ is the type which Sherlock Holmes is meant to be.

Not too shabby.

 

[Thalassa]

Which society is this? The British upper middle class?

Because I know you aren't talking about the U.S. which is more ENTJ; Te dominant with over-emphasis on externalized objects of success and efficiency at the expense of human dignity and spirituality (rejected Fi), as well as big huge wads of childish tertiary Se screaming at us from every commercial and billboard.

 

[Nicki]

We live in very unhealthy Se society.

 

[Mole]

Mbti can't measure the personality of one person, never mind a whole society.

 

[garbage]

First I never said I hated ISTJs, and I already repeated this many times in the thread. I just said society expected you to live an ISTJ life, whether you like to or not, and if aren't one too bad.

Fair enough.

Second, P get laid of more often than Js because they refuse to conform to standards, especially if they don't conform to the 9 to 5 pm norm.

That's a far cry from "Most Ps sleep in the streets and get laid off."

Third, most SPs do not sell drugs or join the Mafia.

 

[Aesthete]

I havent read the thread but I just wanted to add that the ISTJ is the type which Sherlock Holmes is meant to be.

Not too shabby.

Go on: I've considered a few types for Holmes (INTJ, INTP, ISTP), but never ISTJ. Explain your thinking.

 

[Lark]

Go on: I've considered a few types for Holmes (INTJ, INTP, ISTP), but never ISTJ. Explain your thinking.

I read it in a book called How To Think Like Sherlock Holmes, its consistent with what Jung thought about Sensing.

 

[FDG]

Which society is this? The British upper middle class?

Because I know you aren't talking about the U.S. which is more ENTJ; Te dominant with over-emphasis on externalized objects of success and efficiency at the expense of human dignity and spirituality (rejected Fi), as well as big huge wads of childish tertiary Se screaming at us from every commercial and billboard.

And where is the Ni?

 

[miss fortune]

And where is the Ni?

*sigh* probably counter terror plots, the CIA, and the department of homeland security

 

[Il Morto Che Parla]

Misapplied? Not to mention typology?
So what do you think society what us to be? Why don't you tell me and offer us your valuable alternative insights.

(I think you are just opposing for the sake of opposing, while contributing nothing of value in return , like playing devil's advocate for the sake of trolling, )If not please give us what alternative model of how to meet society's expectations, play society's game and win.

What you mean is, society wants you to be an obedient drone.

Enough people have made that point in the past without referencing typology.

 

[miss fortune]

anyway, I've known quite a few ISTJs and wouldn't describe any of them as "obedient drones"... most of them (with a few exceptions) aren't wild and crazy hellraisers, but they tend to do their own thing and get by

society isn't easy for ANYONE to fit in... and I really don't think that it's meant to be. When you combine the aggregate of what everyone is and everyone wants it becomes something that NOBODY is and it's not exactly what anyone wants. You say that society wants for you to be an ISTJ but ISTJs might find it to be the other way around. (I've heard complaints that society keeps wanting one particular person to be less responsible! )

that's why you don't count on society, whatever that is exactly, to make you happy... it won't no matter who you are... happiness and your place are made by you

(yeah, going back to my old "the world don't owe you shit!" message )

 

[Il Morto Che Parla]

anyway, I've known quite a few ISTJs and wouldn't describe any of them as "obedient drones"... most of them (with a few exceptions) aren't wild and crazy hellraisers, but they tend to do their own thing and get by

yep.

but the OP basically means obedient drones.

so why say ISTJ?

You're agreeing with my point.

 

[miss fortune]

yep.

but the OP basically means obedient drones.

so why say ISTJ?

You're agreeing with my point.

I was aware of that