User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 11

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    880

    Default Envy: one of the darkest emotions?

    People are not recognized enough for their worth. Yet, everyone hopes for at least some validation. but it seems like few are prepared to give it because status is treated like a zero-sum game. To have winners you must have losers. Whenever an element gives credit to another, that element may feel its status diminishing.

    For these reasons, success may breed envy. Our success might remind someone else that they're not doing as good. The success of a best friend who always used to perform less well than us may leave a bitter taste in our mouth because we think we deserve better. Colleagues who were competing for the same position may suddenly give you the cold shoulder once you get it. You may feel extremely bitter about a writer who sells more books than you, just because you consider he can't take a risk in making a truly original story. Envy can make people do the most horrible things in a way to diminish the status of someone else. A famous ice skater trying to hurt physically her competitor to stop her from competing. A scientist who stops another from getting an article published by deliberately giving a bad review. A brother who consistently contradicts his sister because he's envious of her success and wants her to be perceived less well by his parents. Envy may push people to unfairly treat others depending solely on the belief that they know better who deserves what.

    Are you envious? How do you deal with envy? How can you make sure your successes don't alienate others and make them envious? I'll let some people answer first before answering myself.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    263

    Default

    —Synonyms 1. enviousness. Envy and jealousy are very close in meaning. Envy denotes a longing to possess something awarded to or achieved by another: to feel envy when a friend inherits a fortune. Jealousy, on the other hand, denotes a feeling of resentment that another has gained something that one more rightfully deserves: to feel jealousy when a coworker receives a promotion.
    I'm not nitpicking (eventhough I am). Problem is that I want to reply but I'm not sure if you'r referring to the dictionary's definition of envy or if it really is jalousy - my answer will vary depending on which it is? It seems like envy is just a desire to have what others have (I see nothing bad in that) and jalousy includes resentment as well.

    Bah never mind, have to try to learn and communicate without running every word through a larger analysis.

    Are you envious? Yes, I can envy other people but I never get jalous. Perhaps because I'm a backgammon player. It's a game where you often have the lead during the whole game and still end up loosing in the last dices roll. I'm used to not getting what I deserve and I'm also used to getting more than I deserve.

    How can you make sure your successes don't alienate others and make them envious? For some reason, which I'll have to think about, people don't often get jalous of me (or if they do, I don't notish it). Perhaps it's just that the things I find interesting about myself, don't interest most people and the things I have which does interest other people don't interest me.
    Verbal IQ Test

    SubFacor IQ score = 65
    Subscale percentile = 1

    You appear to have a very limited vocabulary and lack the ability to identify the correct responses for a variety of different questions. A deficient vocabulary can hinder you in many ways; you may struggle to find the correct words when speaking, fail to understand what others are communicating to you, or come across as inarticulate to others.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    880

    Default

    As defined in Psychology. Specfically, jealousy differs to envy in this definition by being more relational (i.e. I'm jealous of X spending time with Y). The entry in Wikipedia is not bad:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Scientists still do not have a universally agreed upon definition of jealousy. They instead define jealousy in their own words, as illustrated by the following examples:
    "Romantic jealousy is here defined as a complex of thoughts, feelings, and actions which follow threats to self-esteem and/or threats to the existence or quality of the relationship, when those threats are generated by the perception of a real or potential attraction between one's partner and a (perhaps imaginary) rival." (White, 1981, p. 24) [4]
    "Jealousy, then, is any aversive reaction that occurs as the result of a partner's extradyadic relationship that is real, imagined, or considered likely to occur." (Bringle & Buunk, 1991, page 135) [5]
    "Jealousy is conceptualized as a cognitive, emotional, and behavioral response to a relationship threat. In the case of sexual jealousy, this threat emanates from knowing or suspecting that one's partner has had (or desires to have) sexual activity with a third party. In the case of emotional jealousy, an individual feels threatened by her or his partner's emotional involvement with and/or love for a third party." (Guerrero, Spitzberg, & Yoshimura, 2004, page 311) [6]
    "Jealousy is defined as a protective reaction to a perceived threat to a valued relationship, arising from a situation in which the partner's involvement with an activity and/or another person is contrary to the jealous person's definition of their relationship." (Bevan, 2004, page 195) [7]
    "Jealousy is triggered by the threat of separation from, or loss of, a romantic partner, when that threat is attributed to the possibility of the partner's romantic interest in another person." (Sharpteen & Kirkpatrick, 1997, page 628) [8]
    So under this definition both of your examples can be categorized as "envy" (one which does not foster resentment and one which does).

    edit: Also:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Envy is an emotion that "occurs when a person lacks another’s superior quality, achievement, or possession and either desires it or wishes that the other lacked it."[1] At the core of envy seems to be an upward social comparison that threatens a person's self-esteem: another person has something that the envier considers to be important to have. However, what is envied could also be something that is only of personal importance to the envier, even if what the other person has is of little significance in his or her society, or even seen as a sign of inferior status. If the other person is perceived to be similar to the envier, the aroused envy will be particularly intense, because it signals to the envier that it just as well could have been him or her who had the desired object. [2][3].

    The word jealous is often used to describe an envious state. In its correct usage, jealousy is the fear of losing something to another person (a loved one in the prototypical form), while envy is the pain or frustration caused by another person having something that one does not have oneself.

  4. #4
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,595

    Default

    When I'm in competition with people who had advantages that I never did, I still feel resentful. It is my goal in life to let go of that attitude completely, but I'm not there yet. I was raised without much money. We ran out of food and a dollar = a loaf of bread. I didn't have music lessons, or any lessons (except a few week given free when I was eight). My first regular lessons began as a music major in college. All my peers had a 10 year head start which involves building their resume' and portfolio. I still managed to succeed in my field, but the assumption is always that it is an even playing field. The competition is like a race in which some people have motorcycles, some $200 tennis shoes, others have Walmart shoes, and some have no shoes. It is rare that this is recognized. Those with the motorcycles win the race with the assumption that everyone was on a motorcycle.

    I have worked to reason away from resentment of such things. It is unpleasant when I see someone with less advantages than myself. If I am also unhappy when encountering someone with more advantages, where does that leave me? Only content when I meet someone with exactly the same advantages? From a rational point of view it is important to encounter people who have had it better. That means it is 'possible' for things to be better. If my life as it is represented the epitome of what can happen to a person, that is not good news. The person who rides through life on a silver spoon offers something they will never comprehend. Hope. Hope that things can be better for another person as well.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    As defined in Psychology. Specfically, jealousy differs to envy in this definition by being more relational (i.e. I'm jealous of X spending time with Y). The entry in Wikipedia is not bad:

    So under this definition both of your examples can be categorized as "envy" (one which does not foster resentment and one which does).

    edit: Also:
    Thanks, it's these kind of things which can drive me mad (and others too).
    Verbal IQ Test

    SubFacor IQ score = 65
    Subscale percentile = 1

    You appear to have a very limited vocabulary and lack the ability to identify the correct responses for a variety of different questions. A deficient vocabulary can hinder you in many ways; you may struggle to find the correct words when speaking, fail to understand what others are communicating to you, or come across as inarticulate to others.

  6. #6
    Senior Member niffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENfP
    Enneagram
    8w9 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,219

    Default

    I don't really "envy"..I prefer to "admire".
    sparkly sparkly rainbow excretions

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    holy shit am I a feeler?
    if you like my avatar, it's because i took it myself! : D

  7. #7
    Senior Member logan235711's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    166

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    I don't really "envy"..I prefer to "admire".
    yeah!! I think that sounds right I admire what someone else has so I work hard to gain the things that I admire, which in turn perhaps we can learn to admire ourselves a bit as well

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Are you envious?
    NO! Quit asking!


    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    How do you deal with envy?
    <---the banana doesn't dance anymore :'( whyyyyyyyy!!!!!!! god! whhyyy!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    How can you make sure your successes don't alienate others and make them envious?
    oh, that's a tough one! I suppose by trying to notice those who might be more prone to fall into such a rut, and try to befriend them so they feel like they can shair any negative feelings with you before they get out of hand

  8. #8
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    Envy? Occasionally. Less now than when I was younger.

    I've been Mr Second Place for most of my life. Most people see this as not really having to try because I'm already ranked so high but when it's everything and the only way I can shift it is down, then I get irritated. I've been jealous of the first place's better stuff or stroke of luck or something like that. Then I noticed those who positioned below me being envious of my luck, my equipment and things... that kinda woke me up. I realised that I felt that I'd had a small amount of luck (usually) but that my equipment didn't make THAT much difference and so I kinda figured that the guy in first place must just be that bit better.

    It was about this kind of time that I developed a new tactic. If I could tackle that jock over there and get the ball off him then I'd be happy. So I did.

    Now it's not so much of a problem unless I get irritatingly beaten (ie it felt like I could have done no better and yet lost or there were no other options apparent). Also I figure that most people have a focus, that thing which they do well.. better than most of the people they know. Me, I'm an all rounder and I'm possibly the best at that which I know of.

    Okay so some would say that this coping mechanism is merely rationalising away the hurt.... but we all know their just envious
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Envy may push people to unfairly treat others depending solely on the belief that they know better who deserves what.
    This actually reminds me of a this guy from my Back gammon club who once said that Chess is how live is *supposed* to be and Back Gammon and Poker is how life is.

    It's a strange line because it indicates that just because people work hard, are smart, kind and has a long resume of other virtues, they are also *entitled* to *win* or to *gain something* - they deserve it!

    That would be the truth in a world where the element of luck didn't play a role - i.e. a Chess world. In a Back Gammon world/Poker world people can play a beautifull line of perfect games and still get their arse kicked over and over again. They can also play a couple of mediocre games and win a huge pot. Back Gammon is called the *cruelest* game in the world and it does resemble life in many ways. The worlds best player *can* loose a game to the worlds worst player. It's just a matter of chance and coincidence.

    IMO, the feeling of entitlement fucks up a lot of people. Buuuuhuuu I'm so much more intelligent than others, I work so hard and give money to the poor, (I'm pretty hot as well) - "I deserve much more than what I've got!" Yes, in a Chess World perhaps you would but this is a Back Gammon/Poker World where the element of luck plays a role. We don't allways get what we *feel* we deserve and who's to say if we deserve what we got or get in the first place?

    Thing about luck is that it isn't entierly random. There are things which can be estimated, calculation of probability, so we can allways make a strategy in life roll the dices and hope for the best. If that doesn't work the smart player gets more smart, makes a new strategy and roll the dices again. Doesn't mean that he/she will ever win but the smarter the person gets, the harder he/she tries the greater are the chances.
    Verbal IQ Test

    SubFacor IQ score = 65
    Subscale percentile = 1

    You appear to have a very limited vocabulary and lack the ability to identify the correct responses for a variety of different questions. A deficient vocabulary can hinder you in many ways; you may struggle to find the correct words when speaking, fail to understand what others are communicating to you, or come across as inarticulate to others.

  10. #10
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,595

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    For these reasons, success may breed envy. Our success might remind someone else that they're not doing as good. The success of a best friend who always used to perform less well than us may leave a bitter taste in our mouth because we think we deserve better. Colleagues who were competing for the same position may suddenly give you the cold shoulder once you get it. You may feel extremely bitter about a writer who sells more books than you, just because you consider he can't take a risk in making a truly original story. Envy can make people do the most horrible things in a way to diminish the status of someone else. A famous ice skater trying to hurt physically her competitor to stop her from competing. A scientist who stops another from getting an article published by deliberately giving a bad review. A brother who consistently contradicts his sister because he's envious of her success and wants her to be perceived less well by his parents. Envy may push people to unfairly treat others depending solely on the belief that they know better who deserves what.
    I agree about the problem with entitlement. Success can bring a sense of entitlement. If we work hard we 'deserve' the promotion, the gold medal, the popularity, etc. There is a drive to balance our personal equations without full consideration of the outside world. We are entitled in equal portion to what we desire and have worked for. Much of the success mentality fosters this: See, believe, achieve. Even diplomas state that the recipient is 'entitled' to all the privileges associates with the degree.

    If you think about it, entitlement is irrelevant. The universe is not a parent with whom we can throw temper tantrums and it responds to our desires to calm us down and make us all happy again. This entire cycle of thought results from ego-centric thinking. That is meant in a deeper way than the clique'. It is about not being able to recognize how small one's place is in the greater scheme. To cheat, harm another's efforts, or otherwise manipulate the external world to achieve success, is to create an artificial success. If one wins through false means, they will never own their success. It is just a grand make-believe.

    My conclusion is that entitlement is irrelevant, envy is irrelevant. What happens, happens. It does take a concerted choice, which I still work towards, but overall I believe it is an easier path to focus inward to maximize internal strength, adaptability, and peace.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-23-2014, 06:09 AM
  2. The Hitcher - One Of the Best Darn Movies From the 1980s
    By Mal12345 in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-06-2014, 10:22 AM
  3. Pretending to be one of the guys
    By asynartetic in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 80
    Last Post: 01-30-2014, 10:02 AM
  4. "Undermining white privelege in one of the whitest cities in the US"
    By CzeCze in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 70
    Last Post: 09-06-2012, 01:58 PM
  5. How well do you fit one of the 16 types?
    By Ilah in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 09-10-2008, 10:31 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO