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  1. #1
    Society
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    Default typology & prejudice

    major edit: sorry for the confusion, i assumed the english term character meant the same thing it means when your thinking of a character in a story or a play or a roleplaying game - a.k.a. content of the person (as the equivalent would in my own language), and did not know until now that it can actually be used to refer to moral integrity specifically. as a result, this thread has become a huge English fail on my part.

    the actual topic i was trying to [melodramatically] address was typological prejudice in the workplace and in society at large.
    @Coriolis - thank you for clarifying.

    __________________________________________________ ___________
    "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

    so, does the alternative of typological prejudice means mister King got what he was asking for?

    on the other hand:
    can you really say that your typology (MBTI, enneagram, cognitive skill evaluations, or any other), supposedly meant to identify the ways you think, your internal motivational structures, etc', and other deep ingrained traits that define your internal processes, says nothing about your character?

    the old-time fallacy of racism is that it was self-maintaining blindness to nature vs. nurture, it segregated people into different cultural and socioeconomic environments based on ethnicity, and thus was not able to distinguish between the consequences of living in said environment and the true nature, potential and behavioral tendencies and motivations of the human beings within them. but can the same be said about typology?

    screw whether it's morally wrong by our enlightened standards to think like that or even consider the possibility that it is, the reason racism was morally wrong in the first place is because it creates artificial limits on one's capacity to explore their potential and contribute to society by assuming the person can't extent beyond that anyway - the morality of it was wrong because the assumption was wrong. can you really say something is inherently bad by appearing like something that is, when what stands behind it is entirely different?

    can you say that traits that are applicable to your personality are then somehow not applicable to at least part of who you are as a person?

    edit:
    and btw, this is not some dystopian future scenario - typology is used as a means for employment and human resource related decisions right now by a multitude of privately owned organizations and companies throughout the western world.
    Last edited by Society; 01-14-2013 at 07:57 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged for being INFJ, but by the content of their character."
    Fixed.

  3. #3
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    can you really say that your typology (MBTI, enneagram, cognitive skill evaluations, or any other), supposedly meant to identify the ways you think, your internal motivational structures, etc', and other deep ingrained traits that define your internal processes, says nothing about your character?
    Yeah, totally. There are people of high and low character of every type, IMO. Type is morally neutral- character is another measurement (not that I'm sure it can actually be measured). You can be an ENTP with integrity or one without. Repeat x15.

    In fact, I would go so far as to say that linking types to higher or lower character is a gross misuse of typology. Though we like to pretend it is here to generate discussion, no typological structure is fine-grained enough to encompass moral character in addition to personality.

  4. #4
    Society
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Yeah, totally. There are people of high and low character of every type, IMO. Type is morally neutral- character is another measurement (not that I'm sure it can actually be measured). You can be an ENTP with integrity or one without. Repeat x15.
    who said anything about the particular of moral character? i am asking about character in general - and if typology would have no affect on your character, how would you be able to test or type yourself as anything in the first place?

    and btw, this is not some dystopian future scenario - typology is used as a means for employment and human resource related decisions right now by a multitude of privately owned organizations and companies throughout the western world.

  5. #5
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    who said anything about the particular of moral character?
    MLK Jr. did. Do you think he was talking about whether somebody was introverted or extroverted?

  6. #6
    Society
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    MLK Jr. did. Do you think he was talking about whether somebody was introverted or extroverted?
    i think he was talking about all the means people where judged by their color of their skin, which extended way beyond morality - while certainly prejudice in law enforcement agencies was part of it - it also includes education, employment, roles in the military, land ownership, and a thousand other areas.

    also: read above edit.

  7. #7
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    No, because the processes that cause type formation can be interrupted and altered to give different outcomes imo. I think human society naturally evolves to reflect that fact as various kinds of behavior become more necessary within a social grouping. So, my answer is that you do not have a "character" but that your genes can manifest in a lot of different ways that are controlled more by environmental stressors that cause different process manifestation as the field of epigenetics is beginning to show us quite clearly. We live in a gestalt with our environment however, it is a shame that discrimination exists against those whose environment acted upon them in a way that was preventable and led to more deleterious outcomes, but the goal imo is to try to give people in this situation the information and resources needed to help them undergo new processes instead of abandoning them as we currently do. Unfortunately, the view of the person as innate still persists due to lack of education.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  8. #8
    Glycerine
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    For the most part, there is only so much one can really know about someone based off categorization systems and personality types. You can't honestly know someone in depth without knowing genetic predispositions, background, stressors, the amount of resources/resiliency/coping mechanisms, medical conditions, current situation, etc. Even then, there is no way to predict others' behavior...just potential outcomes. Humans will always be the unpredictable variable when it comes to understanding things.

  9. #9
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    This isn't by chance some dystopian future scenario, is it? If so, I'm outta here!

  10. #10
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    artificial limits on one's capacity to explore their potential and contribute to society by assuming the person can't extent beyond that anyway

    People judge and lie, they are impatient and petty, they are violent and spiteful, they follow the crowd to abduct and defile it, they are vulnerable and manipulative, they are peaceful and kind, they want to be a part of the whole or they want to be alone in their kingdom, they are weak and distracted, they seethe and hiss and sneer like reptiles and ejaculate feculence with their arrogance and sanctimony - but not me, never....never me. I am none of these things and usually, within specific spans of space-time, neither are those whom are lucky enough to be in the room with me.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


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