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  1. #11
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    Just as genetics shows there are no races, and astronomy invalidates astrology, and quantum mechanics shows classics mechanics is an illusion, psychometrics invalidates mbti.

    But more to the point, racism is a Nineteenth Century genetic theory that was shown to be wrong in the second half of the Twentieth Century.
    Last edited by Mole; 01-06-2013 at 06:46 PM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Just as genetics shows their are no races, and astronomy invalidates astrology, and quantum mechanics shows classics mechanics is an illusion, psychometrics invalidates mbti.

    But more to the point, racism is a Nineteenth Century genetic theory that was shown to be wrong in the second half of the Twentieth Century.
    This is close to my take on the matter.

    It's not prudent (or right) to use assessments in such a way with such limited data. I'm also confident that, when we gather sufficient data, we'll find that the assessments outright don't work in that way.

  3. #13
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I'm joining the Victor-bologna collective.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Exactly. This is why I like you so much. You understand me perfectly.

  5. #15
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    Disillusion

    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    This is close to my take on the matter.

    It's not prudent (or right) to use assessments in such a way with such limited data. I'm also confident that, when we gather sufficient data, we'll find that the assessments outright don't work in that way.
    But it's life's illusions I recall - the illusion of race, the illusion of star signs, the illusion of classical mechanics and the illusion of type. Why, in the rag and bone yard of my heart I still believe the Sun goes round the Earth. Every day without fail the Sun and the Earth give me the perfect illusion that the Sun moves through the sky and I remain rooted to the Earth. So it is not illusions that make me dizzy, it is disillusion.

  6. #16
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    on the other hand:
    can you really say that your typology (MBTI, enneagram, cognitive skill evaluations, or any other), supposedly meant to identify the ways you think, your internal motivational structures, etc', and other deep ingrained traits that define your internal processes, says nothing about your character?

    the old-time fallacy of racism is that it was self-maintaining blindness to nature vs. nurture, it segregated people into different cultural and socioeconomic environments based on ethnicity, and thus was not able to distinguish between the consequences of living in said environment and the true nature, potential and behavioral tendencies and motivations of the human beings within them. but can the same be said about typology?

    screw whether it's morally wrong by our enlightened standards to think like that or even consider the possibility that it is, the reason racism was morally wrong in the first place is because it creates artificial limits on one's capacity to explore their potential and contribute to society by assuming the person can't extent beyond that anyway - the morality of it was wrong because the assumption was wrong. can you really say something is inherently bad by appearing like something that is, when what stands behind it is entirely different?

    can you say that traits that are applicable to your personality are then somehow not applicable to at least part of who you are as a person?

    edit:
    and btw, this is not some dystopian future scenario - typology is used as a means for employment and human resource related decisions right now by a multitude of privately owned organizations and companies throughout the western world.
    What do you mean by "character"? Some would include elements of personality - e.g. whether someone is gregarious, conscientious, reserved, etc. Others instead focus on virtues like honesty and fairness, that can be exhibited by anyone. If the second, then the answer to your question is a resounding "yes". If the first, then personality influences the nature of your character, but not the absolute value of it. (Meaning it will influence in what manner you are a jerk or a model employee/friend/etc.) Character and personality are both part of who someone is as a person, but neither is the whole story.

    BTW, use of personality questionnaires to make hiring, retention, and promotion is illegal in most places, and widely viewed as unethical. Just like racism, sexism, and other prejudices, however, its misuse persists. They can be used legitimately like interest inventories to help individuals and career counselors understand personal preferences to inform career choices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Just as genetics shows there are no races, and astronomy invalidates astrology, and quantum mechanics shows classics mechanics is an illusion, psychometrics invalidates mbti.
    This is one analogy too far. Classical mechanics is still more than adequate for most macroscopic purposes, like sending a spacecraft to the moon. Recognizing a tool as wrong for a particular job does not make it inherently invalid.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    What do you mean by "character"? Some would include elements of personality - e.g. whether someone is gregarious, conscientious, reserved, etc. Others instead focus on virtues like honesty and fairness, that can be exhibited by anyone.
    aren't both types aspects of your personality? whether your gregarious or honest, the value and what it means to others around you is clearly different, but the are both aspects of who you are - your character.

    am i having a serious english failure in terms of what "character" means in this context?

  8. #18
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    This is one analogy too far. Classical mechanics is still more than adequate for most macroscopic purposes, like sending a spacecraft to the moon. Recognizing a tool as wrong for a particular job does not make it inherently invalid.
    Sure classical mechanics works, in the same way that seeing the Sun go round the Earth works, but in both cases the assumptions are false.

    So quantum mechanics invalidates the assumptions of classical mechanics, just as astonomy invalidates the assumptions of the Earth centric universe.

  9. #19
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Sure classical mechanics works, in the same way that seeing the Sun go round the Earth works, but in both cases the assumptions are false.

    So quantum mechanics invalidates the assumptions of classical mechanics, just as astonomy invalidates the assumptions of the Earth centric universe.
    No. Quantum mechanics expands upon the assumptions of classical mechanics. An Earth-centric universe does not in fact work to explain physical reality.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #20
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    aren't both types aspects of your personality? whether your gregarious or honest, the value and what it means to others around you is clearly different, but the are both aspects of who you are - your character.

    am i having a serious english failure in terms of what "character" means in this context?
    A dictionary will give two main definitions of character. One is basically the nature of a thing. In this sense everything about a person falls under character: personality, morals, tastes, talents, even appearance. The narrower definition focuses on the moral qualities of the person: things like honesty, integrity, fairness, etc. Your OP seemed to mean the second, as I suspect ML King did in his famous speech. I see this as distinct from personality, especially in the MBTI sense, since any type can be honest or dishonest, compassionate or callous, etc. We will just demonstrate these moral qualities (or lack thereof) in different ways.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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