Remorse

[Siúil a Rúin]

How do you express remorse?

Or do you tend to not express it?

Do you tend to feel remorse?

What are your expectations about how remorse is expressed by others?

 

[Pseudo]

I tend to feel a lot of remorse and shame but I think that's mostly to to falsely thinking that I can control my life/ all situations. The wrong belief that some other action would have prevented or enabled X. I can feel shame about very little things so when it's something that I actaully did do it can be paralysing. When I was younger I would flee from these situations (sometimes I still do) and that only makes it worse. But I think I've become better at asking for forgiveness which I generally approach very formally as a way of avoiding the scary emotional ascpects of the situation. Generally letters and gifts. The gifts aren't bribes but they are sort of like a pennance. I generally feel the need to do something or give something rather than just clearing the emotional air.

 

[miss fortune]

I have plenty of reasons to feel remorse in my life and I do... I should too, considering some of the things I've done. I've put a lot of effort into changing myself for the better, and I've apologized to those I could apologize to, because what sort of person doesn't do that?

no need to go around expressing it though... too much of a downer thing to do

 

[King sns]

I tend to analyze situations for a while and do the best I can to make amends. After that, I find it to be a kind of reminiscent pleasant feeling for some reason. Not sure why. Maybe just from whatever I learned and how I've grown. If I make major mistakes with people, after all the loose ends are tied up, I don't mind setting people free. Some times take longer than others. But in the end, I just accept it as a part of life.

 

[Fidelia]

My remorse is most likely to take the form of figuring out what caused the problem in the first place and trying to correct it so that I do not repeat the same action. I can't say that I knowingly would hurt someone else, but freely acknowledge that I have inadvertently done so by thoughtlessness or by misinterpretation on one or both party's parts. I used to take all negative feedback as truth, but as I've gotten older have realized that everyone comes with their own set of expectations, reactions and assumptions. I also hated the burden of blame, and so sometimes would over compensate by apologizing or taking responsibility for things that weren't even in my realm of control. Then when others didn't seem to be treating me with the same consideration, I found it frustrating.

What I've found works better is more communication to understand 1) I have hurt someone 2) provide context for how my and the other person's words or actions were interpreted and then 3) discussion about what would work better for both parties.

I think that EJCC suggested that Fe tends to be more about investigating specific outcomes and courses of action to avoid or to pursue, vs Fi which is more likely to examine intent and thinking patterns that resulted in the mistake. Probably the best answer lies somewhere between the two.

When I realize that I have done something wrong though, I will apologize, but sometimes may not feel that verbalizing it is adequate. Because I'd most prefer remorse from others to be expressed through attention and change in action (my feelings are transient and not really an integral part of my identity - they are more indicators that something is awry that needs changing), that's likely why my response is likely to be more action oriented than verbally oriented (talk is cheap and sometimes doesn't express the depth of sorryness).

I was just thinking about it too and sometimes I feel like my delayed processing time in figuring out reactions, feelings, or noticing patterns may make it seem to others that I am avoiding responsibility, when that is anything but the case. I want to be sure I have it accurately figured out before I verbalize a lot.

 

[Mole]

My remorse is most likely to take the form of figuring out what caused the problem in the first place and trying to correct it so that I do not repeat the same action.

With hindsight, I can see I have treated a lover badly, but I can also see that at the time I didn't know what I was doing.

And I expect that often today I don't know what I am doing, so I may treat others badly.

And also I can see others often don't know what they are doing, and so treat me badly.

It's an interesting situation where we don't know what we are doing.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

For the purpose of this thread only I will talk about my oldest scenarios of remorse.
My earliest memory of remorse is me sitting in a high chair crying and various people are trying to cheer me up, but I feel frustrated and angry and just keep on crying, but also felt a little badly about it.

When I was in the fourth grade my mother taught a one-room church school which I , my sister, and my brother attended. There was a little girl also in fourth grade named Desiree who had a few oddities. She was slight, had very pale skin, straight blonde hair, and glasses that turned dark in the sunlight. There was also something unusual about the sandwiches she brought for lunch. My sister and I ignored her and left her out. I remember we even gossiped about her with another kid. We were becoming the mean girls. We felt angry, would pretend to smoke cigarettes, would wander about the town, stop by convenience stores and look at the porno magazines.

My mother noticed we were leaving Desiree out of play at school and she said to me, "I have seen you leaving Desiree out, and I think she feels the same way you did when Beverly did that to you last year". It made me uncomfortable and angry that she would say this, and I told her it was completely different, but I knew it was exactly the same.

Soon after my mom was forced to resign as a result of a church feud, and we were homeless for a few month, but had a friend who took us in to stay in their backyard one-room structure.

Desiree's family started having us over for dinner and were working to convert us to their religion. My sister and I began to feel remorse and so we gave Desiree some of our favorite posters from TigerBeat magazine and apologized. I felt like I had done the right thing, but I will always remember that I excluded someone for no better reason than that they seemed vulnerable and unusual. I can't think of any other reason we did it because she was perfectly sweet and wanted to fit in.

As the years went by in school I made more effort to befriend the students who didn't fit in and I think a lot of it is because of Desiree, and I realized that I had the capacity to be a mean girl, and I realized the complete stupidity of such a thing.

With hindsight, I can see I have treated a lover badly, but I can also see that at the time I didn't know what I was doing.

And I expect that often today I don't know what I am doing, so I may treat others badly.

And also I can see others often don't know what they are doing, and so treat me badly.

It's an interesting situation where we don't know what we are doing.

On some level that goes to the core of all hurts, I suspect.

 

[Riva]

For me it is mostly action than expression.

The expression will come sooner or later though.

hmm.. though actions speak louder than words when it comes to remorse maybe words speak louder than actions. I guess where a 'sorry' is due let it be said.

But if I am not mistaken what you are looking for is not apologies but real heartfelt regret? Now that is a tricky question. One cannot measure it. Maybe one need to simply learn how to sound sincere.

How do you express remorse?

Usually it takes time.

I either immediately feel remorse or feel it when I feel embarrassed about myself which usually happens a few weeks after the incident took place.

Either way expressing remorse takes time. Even if I immediately feel it I would not immediately express it. I need the time, I need the place to do so. If I realize it is taking too long I will make small talk - to see the state of the person I have wronged - smoothly change the subject and apologize.

Or do you tend to not express it?

Depends on how strong the feeling of embarrassment. Eventually it will haunt me and then no matter how long ago it was I would.

I might not do so considering the practicality of the situation. Sometimes a sorry would only make things worse, sometimes it would only bring out old wounds therefore might not help.

And most times indicating that I care is better than a sorry logic dictates. But if the subject is brought to conversation and I realize the wounds haven't healed I would apologize.

Do you tend to feel remorse?

Unless one is a psychopath or a sociopath one would always feel remorse.

What are your expectations about how remorse is expressed by others?

If I really like the person I'd feel the need to shout at them. A listening ear on those occasions is what I need not a debate.

If I'm not so attached to the person a private apology and not-repeating the harmful act is what I need.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

My deeply loved aunt passed away last year, and she was an ISTJ. She lived alone and had an abrupt communication style and had some issues regulating emotion. Periodically she would rake my mother over the coals with unfair judgments, and did the same to me a couple of times. At those points her words were poisonous and hurtful, but it wasn't her authentic self. Her actual heart was made of gold and she would save every penny of her modest income living frugally and then give money to people. She would send me $5 every week when I was in college.

She didn't have the ability to apologize directly, but would in a very subtle way that involved expressing a different mood and trying to be helpful. I suspect she struggled with a lot of personal guilt and would lash out when it built up to overwhelming. She didn't need to feel such guilt and I wanted to hug her and tell her she is okay. We didn't expect apologies from her, but understood her personal way of communicating.

Guilt and remorse are complex psychologically. These are an area of extreme vulnerability and should not be toyed with or jerked around. It is beyond important to treat this aspect of human beings with gentleness and respect. I have a huge issue with demanding apologies from people because I have primarily witnessed this as a control tactic. Interestingly enough, in its most extreme form remorse specifically is used to initiate new cult members. Many cults do this, but the ICOC requires new members to make "sin lists" and they are berated and must confess to the point of weeping. I realize that most general people don't take it to this extreme, and I can certainly understand wanting an apology from someone who has wronged me, but it cannot all be approached in the same manner.

I haven't apologized for all my wrongs and people have certainly not apologized every time I've been wronged, but talk is cheap anyway, and the only apology that has meaning in my mind is changed behavior. It is way too easy to manipulate and convolute communication with all the torn and twisted words of apology and remorse. I try to limit giving and receiving of such to times it will actually benefit either myself or the other person.

 

[Tiltyred]

I feel remorse for things I did and said to my father while he was alive, when I was in my late twenties. I'm now five years older than he was when he died, and can see things more from his perspective, perhaps. I try not to get too caught up in this but I carry it. I try to use it to keep me from saying things now that I will regret the rest of my life if that person should die before I have a chance to realize and apologize for my wrongs.

All I want from another person is that they acknowledge what happened. One sentence, just a couple of words. Or I am even good with an unspoken apology -- a change in attitude, a gesture of any sort toward me -- I'll take it, and try to move forward.

P.S. I don't have relationships right now in my life that would have me deep enough into them to do something I'd feel remorseful for. I tend to like to keep it that way. So I don't have much to say about how I express it right now in my life. I guess I keep my distance so I don't have to.

 

[Totenkindly]

How do you express remorse?

Or do you tend to not express it?

Do you tend to feel remorse?

What are your expectations about how remorse is expressed by others?

I feel a lot of remorse, because I hold myself under a lot of scrutiny. People might not always realize that, since I don't always voice it, but I tend to regret every mistake I've made. I'm in a more stable place now, because I've accepted we're all human and that many times I did the best I could, so it was mere human failing that led me to a mistake rather than some flaw in me; but I was very hard on myself and self-castigating as a teenager, and would often punish myself for the smallest error.

I used to show a lot more remorse outwardly, because I wanted people to understand how sorry I was; now I think sometimes that just contributes to the drama, and sometimes they're not even the ones judging me or don't realize I did something, so I share if it makes sense and if it is important to the relationship; otherwise I just resolve to do better the next time.

I care about expressions of remorse only really as how it's applicable to the problem. If I don't trust sometimes intentions because they've never shown remorse, then yes, it helps to see the remorse until I'm aware it's there. But I don't much like people who bemoan a situation and go on about how sorry they are, while not resolving the problem. I'd rather they poured a lot of that energy into fixing the problem, once they 'fess up to their error. I don't need a lot of fancy talk, I just need a sense that, yes, they're sorry; and then we can move ahead.

 

[Giggly]

Remorse is nothing if not expressed outwardly. It doesn't matter how you express it, as long as you express it outwardly, and do so genuinely.

 

[lowtech redneck]

Or do you tend to not express it?

Do you tend to feel remorse?

What are your expectations about how remorse is expressed by others?

I'm quick to apologize to any specific person I've wronged....otherwise, I internalize it almost completely, at least in the presence of others.

Very deeply.....I would much rather experience physical pain than remorse, and avoiding future remorse tends to play a huge part in my decision-making process.

A sincere apology is usually sufficient.....and if it isn't, then its probably about something that is either legally actionable, or because a person is ethically responsible for something truly horrible.

 

[jcloudz]

i express remorse sincerely apologizing and correcting where i may have went wrong. pretty simple

sometimes i will just correct something, without an apology if i dont feel remorse.

if i dont feel remorse, i wont apologize unless i sincerely feel it.

yes i feel it.

 

[Mole]

Life is tragic because we hurt those we love.

 

[Little Linguist]

re·morse noun \ri-ˈmȯrs\

Definition of REMORSE

1
: a gnawing distress arising from a sense of guilt for past wrongs : self-reproach
2
obsolete : compassion

Now, according to this definition, I have experienced remorse before, but, as with most negative feelings, I believe it to be only mildly helpful.

What bothers me about the concept of remorse is the sense of "gnawing distress" and "guilt". Here is the deal: In my opinion, it is perfectly natural to acknowledge wrongdoing and accept responsibility for it, which is a clichéd way of saying "admit you screwed up, and try to fix it, if you can." However, "gnawing distress" implies an unhealthy feeling that is not conducive towards ameliorating the situation, really. And guilt, although it helps us perceive when we have done something we should not do, can also be unhealthy in unwarranted amounts.

So, sure, I feel remorse over certain things like any other human being, but the key is discipline. Discipline to not wallow in the feeling. Discipline to acknowledge and ameliorate wrongdoing. Discipline to devise methods not to do it again, even if it means not taking the easy way out. And discipline to take action and to reflect equally.

 

[garbage]

Long and short: I want those who matter to me to hold themselves accountable, to dig into their consciences and tease out how much an action may have been 'wrong' or otherwise hurtful. I expect myself to do the same. We both grow, individually and together, as a result. That's only an ideal, though, because shame or pride might (understandably and naturally) hold us back once an awhile.

I try to express remorse very directly.

I do agree with [MENTION=4466]Little Linguist[/MENTION] on "gnawing distress." Hopefully, we've established enough trust with another person that we don't have to feel outright distress with every misstep that we've taken; that we can readily forgive and be forgiven.

 

[Society]

How do you express remorse?
i think an example might be good: there was one time when i shouted at my son, i mean, not showing disapproval or discipline to teach him, but genuinely got mad and really shouted at him when he threw his supper on the floor... and he burst out crying. for a little moment still not realizing, i found myself still talking to him in discipline mode, but the cry was different, it wasn't about being in trouble, it was something completely different, he wasn't dodging or protesting, instead he looked at me and reached up with his arms in a desperate cry. i still didn't understand what was wrong, but compassion took over me entirely, i hugged him, allowing him to cry on my shoulder until he calmed down and looked at me, in a line and a face that are among the most vivid in my memory, "daddy, you scared me". i hugged him closer until he calmed down, telling him i didn't mean to scare him, he should never be scared of his dad... i thought back to when i was a little kid, and my father who later found out he had diabetes would go into fits of low sugar rage, how scary was that, and that gigantic man i remembered being smaller then me now. and i realized that in my effort to avoid that, he has never seen me angry towards him. he has seen my angry at his teacher once, when i found out she something to him i disapproved of greatly (that only babies cry). he saw me mad at another parent once when that parent refused to acknowledge their own child's actions. he has never seen me get angry at him. there i saw myself, and what i just did, this gigantic man who my boy trusts there to always be there for him, for one single moment turning against him, all the traits that are there to defend him for one moment became a threat, the security blanket turning against him. and in that moment of understanding, i absolutely hated myself, even if it was just my voice, i knew how sensitive he is for the emotion it conveys, and i failed to defend him from... me. it felt horrible, and worst for him.
we talked it out, and i thought out loud with him. many parents who are wiser by their own accord might disapprove, and to do such is their own business, but that was the first time i decided to break the hierarchy. we agreed that he learns to not do something when he's punished and gets time out, that's what he knows in his own little world of experience, and now he needed the same sign of confidence from me, to feel confident that he won't ever have to be scared of me, and i need to humble myself for him in a context he understands as being humbling. so we went on time out together, him for throwing supper on the floor, and me for scaring him. after a few minutes we went through the ritual, i took him out of timeout, explaining that daddy worked hard to make the food, explaining to him it's like how he got mad when the cat walked on and made a mess of a block castle he made, to which he answered "oh, i didn't know, i am sorry i threw your supper castle on the floor", and we agreed that we don't throw food on the floor. then i asked him if my time out is done, and he.. well, i don't remember how long but he actually squeezed it for a good few moments before my time out was done, until we talked as i thought about it out loud, and we decided i will only scare him when he puts himself in danger or "will make him dead like the skunk" (his death-learning rode kill), after which we agreed that throwing supper isn't dangerous, and we agreed that if he isn't in danger, i won't scare him. after that, the few times i shouted at him again he immediately realized he is doing something dangerous, stopped and ran to me. he hasn't thrown his supper on the floor since last i saw him.

Or do you tend to not express it?
if you mean experience it but not express it, then there can be a delay, because i tend to verbalize my thoughts to figure out what i am feeling and finding that i am feeling remorseful. it doesn't have to be with who i feel remorseful towards, though that's positive if it can be, just with someone. i understand the notion of expressing it through actions and not the words, i know how uncomfortable and humiliating the act if expressing it can be, but i think that if it's left un-communicated, the other person can still be living in fear of you doing it, if you can take that away from them, you probably should.
as far as not experiencing it, i don't get that at all, i don't understand how it's humanly possible to grow to be a decent person without it. in fact the pattern i see persistently in the few who seem unable to do so is that they pride themselves of already being decent people who wouldn't cause hurt, to the point that it is the assumption that they go by, which means that when they have being hurtful towards other people, it is then those people who are being cruel by the act of communicating their hurt, and thus challenging that assumption, "how dare you make me feel bad about myself? i would never do [what your saying i just did to you...]" sort of attitude. for me that is someone who not only can i trust to try and not hurt me or anyone who might be close to both of us in the future, not only does it mean that they tend towards cruel cycles - in which someone expressing that they've being hurt is likely to become an excuse to hurt them more - but it is a sign that they have probably done a good job defended themselves against life lesson's in the past, favoring the belief about themselves and their ego more then they care about anyone else or about whether those beliefs are true. when explaining to someone that they have done something hurtful towards you is followed by prideful claims as "counter arguments" instead of compassion, that's a giant red flag telling me to trust them as far as i can throw them, and if they try to get close to you, better get the catapult ready.

Do you tend to feel remorse?
yep, and it sucks. people you already care about are easy, but i remember - in the second israeli-lebanon war - the first time i felt remorse for my actions towards someone who i didn't know, or rather, the unknown variable of family members and friends of someone who for me had no face. i had a million excuses - it was a draft army not a volunteer army, i didn't choose to be there, i was ordered not acting out of my will, my own family was in the range of missiles they where launching, etc'. you can't get more "justified" then that - i still loathed myself for doing it, i was lucky enough to find my way out of the unit shortly after. that remorse never got resolved, it's not exactly an open boarder passport stamping situation, and i think in someways its better that it doesn't, so that the narrowest of tribal and selective mentalities doesn't completely engulf me.

What are your expectations about how remorse is expressed by others?
show it to me. i've seen enough "repenting" that gets repeated. show me that your interested in the fact it was hurtful, that your curious and want to understand what you did wrong, that you understand why it was hurtful, that you can think of ways to avoid it, or at least work on changing it if it's an habitual matter or takes conscious effort. and the most important of all - show me that your at least trying to avoid it. most important of all, do it out of your own fucking initiative.

 

[Tiltyred]

I think what you wrote is beautiful, and you have the gift of a beautiful and great heart. Not everybody does, is the thing. It's hard not to hold that against them, but they can only be what they can be. You may never really get back what you're able to put out, not because you don't deserve it -- you do -- but because not everyone has your gifts of the heart.

 

[EJCC]

How do you express remorse?

Or do you tend to not express it?

Do you tend to feel remorse?

I'm not sure if I feel remorse, as much as I feel intense guilt. Maybe my definitions aren't right, but "remorse" seems to have a milder and slightly more healthy connotation, and what I experience after I've done something very wrong never feels mild or healthy. (Of course, I think I beat myself up more than the average person. Some of that is type-related, but some of it isn't.)

My tendency is usually to try and express, to the best of my ability, verbally or in writing, the depth of my remorse, in the hopes that that will prove that I'm actually sorry and not lying about it. That definitely works, since it comes across as melodramatic and I am almost never melodramatic, but it isn't terribly mature, in practice. Besides the specific act of apologizing, I tend to obsess over the wrong act, feeling it over endlessly in my mind, imagining everything that could go wrong with the person I failed, e.g. everything they could yell at me, all the worst things they could do to me that I'd think were justified. (As this thought process is going, I'll come across to others as being quieter than normal, and more distracted.)

I also tend to explain my reasoning, when I apologize for things, sort of in this format: "I'm sorry I did X. I did X because I thought Y, which led to X in my mind, which was obviously wrong. Now I know that Y is incorrect, so I won't think that way again, and I therefore won't do it again." But that doesn't seem to work with Fe-users -- and I've had bad experiences talking that way to angry INTPs. I don't know how I'm supposed to talk to them, and I don't know how to tell that they'll react that way if I don't know their MBTI type in advance.

What are your expectations about how remorse is expressed by others?

I'd prefer that they only apologize for the deed, instead of only apologizing for how it made me feel... if I had to pick just one. Only apologizing for how it made me feel, means that you don't think you did anything wrong. I'd rather that you apologize for both, i.e. acknowledging that my hurt feelings are valid, and apologizing for your wrongdoing.

I feel a lot of remorse, because I hold myself under a lot of scrutiny. People might not always realize that, since I don't always voice it, but I tend to regret every mistake I've made. I'm in a more stable place now, because I've accepted we're all human and that many times I did the best I could, so it was mere human failing that led me to a mistake rather than some flaw in me; but I was very hard on myself and self-castigating as a teenager, and would often punish myself for the smallest error.

I relate a lot to this. I tend to not accept my own mistakes, even if they're tiny and inconsequential -- and I have also punished myself before. Something I'm working through, gradually.