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Thread: Remorse

  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    How do you express remorse?

    Or do you tend to not express it?

    Do you tend to feel remorse?

    What are your expectations about how remorse is expressed by others?
    I feel a lot of remorse, because I hold myself under a lot of scrutiny. People might not always realize that, since I don't always voice it, but I tend to regret every mistake I've made. I'm in a more stable place now, because I've accepted we're all human and that many times I did the best I could, so it was mere human failing that led me to a mistake rather than some flaw in me; but I was very hard on myself and self-castigating as a teenager, and would often punish myself for the smallest error.

    I used to show a lot more remorse outwardly, because I wanted people to understand how sorry I was; now I think sometimes that just contributes to the drama, and sometimes they're not even the ones judging me or don't realize I did something, so I share if it makes sense and if it is important to the relationship; otherwise I just resolve to do better the next time.

    I care about expressions of remorse only really as how it's applicable to the problem. If I don't trust sometimes intentions because they've never shown remorse, then yes, it helps to see the remorse until I'm aware it's there. But I don't much like people who bemoan a situation and go on about how sorry they are, while not resolving the problem. I'd rather they poured a lot of that energy into fixing the problem, once they 'fess up to their error. I don't need a lot of fancy talk, I just need a sense that, yes, they're sorry; and then we can move ahead.
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  2. #12
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Remorse is nothing if not expressed outwardly. It doesn't matter how you express it, as long as you express it outwardly, and do so genuinely.

  3. #13
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post

    Or do you tend to not express it?

    Do you tend to feel remorse?

    What are your expectations about how remorse is expressed by others?
    I'm quick to apologize to any specific person I've wronged....otherwise, I internalize it almost completely, at least in the presence of others.

    Very deeply.....I would much rather experience physical pain than remorse, and avoiding future remorse tends to play a huge part in my decision-making process.

    A sincere apology is usually sufficient.....and if it isn't, then its probably about something that is either legally actionable, or because a person is ethically responsible for something truly horrible.

  4. #14
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    i express remorse sincerely apologizing and correcting where i may have went wrong. pretty simple

    sometimes i will just correct something, without an apology if i dont feel remorse.

    if i dont feel remorse, i wont apologize unless i sincerely feel it.

    yes i feel it.
    "I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine. "
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    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Life is tragic because we hurt those we love.

  6. #16
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    re·morse noun \ri-ˈmȯrs\

    Definition of REMORSE

    1
    : a gnawing distress arising from a sense of guilt for past wrongs : self-reproach
    2
    obsolete : compassion
    Now, according to this definition, I have experienced remorse before, but, as with most negative feelings, I believe it to be only mildly helpful.

    What bothers me about the concept of remorse is the sense of "gnawing distress" and "guilt". Here is the deal: In my opinion, it is perfectly natural to acknowledge wrongdoing and accept responsibility for it, which is a clichéd way of saying "admit you screwed up, and try to fix it, if you can." However, "gnawing distress" implies an unhealthy feeling that is not conducive towards ameliorating the situation, really. And guilt, although it helps us perceive when we have done something we should not do, can also be unhealthy in unwarranted amounts.

    So, sure, I feel remorse over certain things like any other human being, but the key is discipline. Discipline to not wallow in the feeling. Discipline to acknowledge and ameliorate wrongdoing. Discipline to devise methods not to do it again, even if it means not taking the easy way out. And discipline to take action and to reflect equally.

  7. #17
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    Long and short: I want those who matter to me to hold themselves accountable, to dig into their consciences and tease out how much an action may have been 'wrong' or otherwise hurtful. I expect myself to do the same. We both grow, individually and together, as a result. That's only an ideal, though, because shame or pride might (understandably and naturally) hold us back once an awhile.

    I try to express remorse very directly.

    I do agree with @Little Linguist on "gnawing distress." Hopefully, we've established enough trust with another person that we don't have to feel outright distress with every misstep that we've taken; that we can readily forgive and be forgiven.

  8. #18
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    How do you express remorse?
    i think an example might be good: there was one time when i shouted at my son, i mean, not showing disapproval or discipline to teach him, but genuinely got mad and really shouted at him when he threw his supper on the floor... and he burst out crying. for a little moment still not realizing, i found myself still talking to him in discipline mode, but the cry was different, it wasn't about being in trouble, it was something completely different, he wasn't dodging or protesting, instead he looked at me and reached up with his arms in a desperate cry. i still didn't understand what was wrong, but compassion took over me entirely, i hugged him, allowing him to cry on my shoulder until he calmed down and looked at me, in a line and a face that are among the most vivid in my memory, "daddy, you scared me". i hugged him closer until he calmed down, telling him i didn't mean to scare him, he should never be scared of his dad... i thought back to when i was a little kid, and my father who later found out he had diabetes would go into fits of low sugar rage, how scary was that, and that gigantic man i remembered being smaller then me now. and i realized that in my effort to avoid that, he has never seen me angry towards him. he has seen my angry at his teacher once, when i found out she something to him i disapproved of greatly (that only babies cry). he saw me mad at another parent once when that parent refused to acknowledge their own child's actions. he has never seen me get angry at him. there i saw myself, and what i just did, this gigantic man who my boy trusts there to always be there for him, for one single moment turning against him, all the traits that are there to defend him for one moment became a threat, the security blanket turning against him. and in that moment of understanding, i absolutely hated myself, even if it was just my voice, i knew how sensitive he is for the emotion it conveys, and i failed to defend him from... me. it felt horrible, and worst for him.
    we talked it out, and i thought out loud with him. many parents who are wiser by their own accord might disapprove, and to do such is their own business, but that was the first time i decided to break the hierarchy. we agreed that he learns to not do something when he's punished and gets time out, that's what he knows in his own little world of experience, and now he needed the same sign of confidence from me, to feel confident that he won't ever have to be scared of me, and i need to humble myself for him in a context he understands as being humbling. so we went on time out together, him for throwing supper on the floor, and me for scaring him. after a few minutes we went through the ritual, i took him out of timeout, explaining that daddy worked hard to make the food, explaining to him it's like how he got mad when the cat walked on and made a mess of a block castle he made, to which he answered "oh, i didn't know, i am sorry i threw your supper castle on the floor", and we agreed that we don't throw food on the floor. then i asked him if my time out is done, and he.. well, i don't remember how long but he actually squeezed it for a good few moments before my time out was done, until we talked as i thought about it out loud, and we decided i will only scare him when he puts himself in danger or "will make him dead like the skunk" (his death-learning rode kill), after which we agreed that throwing supper isn't dangerous, and we agreed that if he isn't in danger, i won't scare him. after that, the few times i shouted at him again he immediately realized he is doing something dangerous, stopped and ran to me. he hasn't thrown his supper on the floor since last i saw him.

    Or do you tend to not express it?
    if you mean experience it but not express it, then there can be a delay, because i tend to verbalize my thoughts to figure out what i am feeling and finding that i am feeling remorseful. it doesn't have to be with who i feel remorseful towards, though that's positive if it can be, just with someone. i understand the notion of expressing it through actions and not the words, i know how uncomfortable and humiliating the act if expressing it can be, but i think that if it's left un-communicated, the other person can still be living in fear of you doing it, if you can take that away from them, you probably should.
    as far as not experiencing it, i don't get that at all, i don't understand how it's humanly possible to grow to be a decent person without it. in fact the pattern i see persistently in the few who seem unable to do so is that they pride themselves of already being decent people who wouldn't cause hurt, to the point that it is the assumption that they go by, which means that when they have being hurtful towards other people, it is then those people who are being cruel by the act of communicating their hurt, and thus challenging that assumption, "how dare you make me feel bad about myself? i would never do [what your saying i just did to you...]" sort of attitude. for me that is someone who not only can i trust to try and not hurt me or anyone who might be close to both of us in the future, not only does it mean that they tend towards cruel cycles - in which someone expressing that they've being hurt is likely to become an excuse to hurt them more - but it is a sign that they have probably done a good job defended themselves against life lesson's in the past, favoring the belief about themselves and their ego more then they care about anyone else or about whether those beliefs are true. when explaining to someone that they have done something hurtful towards you is followed by prideful claims as "counter arguments" instead of compassion, that's a giant red flag telling me to trust them as far as i can throw them, and if they try to get close to you, better get the catapult ready.

    Do you tend to feel remorse?
    yep, and it sucks. people you already care about are easy, but i remember - in the second israeli-lebanon war - the first time i felt remorse for my actions towards someone who i didn't know, or rather, the unknown variable of family members and friends of someone who for me had no face. i had a million excuses - it was a draft army not a volunteer army, i didn't choose to be there, i was ordered not acting out of my will, my own family was in the range of missiles they where launching, etc'. you can't get more "justified" then that - i still loathed myself for doing it, i was lucky enough to find my way out of the unit shortly after. that remorse never got resolved, it's not exactly an open boarder passport stamping situation, and i think in someways its better that it doesn't, so that the narrowest of tribal and selective mentalities doesn't completely engulf me.

    What are your expectations about how remorse is expressed by others?
    show it to me. i've seen enough "repenting" that gets repeated. show me that your interested in the fact it was hurtful, that your curious and want to understand what you did wrong, that you understand why it was hurtful, that you can think of ways to avoid it, or at least work on changing it if it's an habitual matter or takes conscious effort. and the most important of all - show me that your at least trying to avoid it. most important of all, do it out of your own fucking initiative.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I think what you wrote is beautiful, and you have the gift of a beautiful and great heart. Not everybody does, is the thing. It's hard not to hold that against them, but they can only be what they can be. You may never really get back what you're able to put out, not because you don't deserve it -- you do -- but because not everyone has your gifts of the heart.

  10. #20
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    How do you express remorse?

    Or do you tend to not express it?

    Do you tend to feel remorse?
    I'm not sure if I feel remorse, as much as I feel intense guilt. Maybe my definitions aren't right, but "remorse" seems to have a milder and slightly more healthy connotation, and what I experience after I've done something very wrong never feels mild or healthy. (Of course, I think I beat myself up more than the average person. Some of that is type-related, but some of it isn't.)

    My tendency is usually to try and express, to the best of my ability, verbally or in writing, the depth of my remorse, in the hopes that that will prove that I'm actually sorry and not lying about it. That definitely works, since it comes across as melodramatic and I am almost never melodramatic, but it isn't terribly mature, in practice. Besides the specific act of apologizing, I tend to obsess over the wrong act, feeling it over endlessly in my mind, imagining everything that could go wrong with the person I failed, e.g. everything they could yell at me, all the worst things they could do to me that I'd think were justified. (As this thought process is going, I'll come across to others as being quieter than normal, and more distracted.)

    I also tend to explain my reasoning, when I apologize for things, sort of in this format: "I'm sorry I did X. I did X because I thought Y, which led to X in my mind, which was obviously wrong. Now I know that Y is incorrect, so I won't think that way again, and I therefore won't do it again." But that doesn't seem to work with Fe-users -- and I've had bad experiences talking that way to angry INTPs. I don't know how I'm supposed to talk to them, and I don't know how to tell that they'll react that way if I don't know their MBTI type in advance.
    What are your expectations about how remorse is expressed by others?
    I'd prefer that they only apologize for the deed, instead of only apologizing for how it made me feel... if I had to pick just one. Only apologizing for how it made me feel, means that you don't think you did anything wrong. I'd rather that you apologize for both, i.e. acknowledging that my hurt feelings are valid, and apologizing for your wrongdoing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I feel a lot of remorse, because I hold myself under a lot of scrutiny. People might not always realize that, since I don't always voice it, but I tend to regret every mistake I've made. I'm in a more stable place now, because I've accepted we're all human and that many times I did the best I could, so it was mere human failing that led me to a mistake rather than some flaw in me; but I was very hard on myself and self-castigating as a teenager, and would often punish myself for the smallest error.
    I relate a lot to this. I tend to not accept my own mistakes, even if they're tiny and inconsequential -- and I have also punished myself before. Something I'm working through, gradually.
    Last edited by EJCC; 01-03-2013 at 01:32 PM.
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