User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 28

  1. #11
    morose bourgeoisie
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,859

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    First thought:


    Zimbardo covers this one pretty well.

    While a few bad apples might spoil the barrel (filled with good fruit/people), a vinegar barrel will always transform sweet cucumbers into sour pickles—regardless of the best intentions, resilience, and genetic nature of the cucumbers. So does it make more sense to spend resources to identify, isolate, and destroy bad apples or to understand how vinegar works? —Phillip Zimbardo

    See also: this

    --

    Second thought: We can try to make sense of the two opposing viewpoints that a person holds--we can weave a thread that reconciles them and ties them together. But, usually, the most straightforward way to make sense of the fact that someone holds such disparate viewpoints is to acknowledge that people simply do not make sense.
    +1. People are not rational, even those who think they are.

  2. #12
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4 sp/so
    Posts
    6,172

    Default

    +2
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  3. #13
    Epiphany
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    First thought:


    Zimbardo covers this one pretty well.

    While a few bad apples might spoil the barrel (filled with good fruit/people), a vinegar barrel will always transform sweet cucumbers into sour pickles—regardless of the best intentions, resilience, and genetic nature of the cucumbers. So does it make more sense to spend resources to identify, isolate, and destroy bad apples or to understand how vinegar works? —Phillip Zimbardo

    See also: this

    --

    Second thought: We can try to make sense of the two opposing viewpoints that a person holds--we can weave a thread that reconciles them and ties them together. But, usually, the most straightforward way to make sense of the fact that someone holds such disparate viewpoints is to acknowledge that people simply do not make sense.
    I just stumbled upon a video presentation on this subject from the man, himself.


  4. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    Will
    Posts
    5,927

    Default

    I think evil introduces an element of change, a certain chaos that can really shift the global currents.
    That would most certainly lead to development - or potentially degradation.
    I guess 'evil' just needs to be used with virtuous intent.

  5. #15
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Necrophilic as opposed to biophilic personalities prefer dead or inanimate objects to living ones, especially indominitable forms of life like people.

    While loving animals could be biophilic it usually isnt if its simply a matter than animals can be easily dominated or controlled or are not taxing in the way that normal social interaction has become or is for that individual.
    What are you talking about? Are you suggesting school shooters are necros?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    In light of the recent tragedy in Connecticut, it raises questions about mental illness and the nature of evil. It would seem that a person who is capable of such a heinous crime would completely lack a conscience or empathy, such as a psychopath. It is a common characteristic of serial killers to torture or kill animals before they move onto human beings, due to their lack of empathy for the suffering of others. Surprisingly, friends of the shooter's family said that he was vegan "for moral reasons" because he believed it was wrong for animals to suffer a violent death to satisfy a person's appetite. How strange that someone can have such empathy for a helpless animal, yet mercilessly murder innocent children.

    It reminds me of a quote attributed to Hitler about how cruel it is to drive at a high speed alongside pedestrians on the road and splash them with puddles.

    How do these extreme contradictions exist within a single mind? What mental condition or personality disorder can account for such a depraved act from an individual who exercised more empathy than the average person, in regards to animal suffering?
    It is simply that the individual is unable to perceive other people as beings with which to empathise (whereas he has no difficulty finding traits within animals with which to empathise). Probably because he sees himself as a victim (and feels he has this in common with animals that are preyed upon). There is no doubt that such people suffer from a kind of persecution complex which legitimises their actions (in their own heads). Most people are unable to empathise with those sentiments, but there are those who can.

    It is not uncommon for people (who are not considered psychopathic) to suspend empathy for certain groups of individuals and not others. In fact, this is probably more rule than exception.
    This accounts for pedophiles, rapists, misogynists, racists, homophobes, religious fanatics, all the way down to schoolyard bullies. In one sense, this is unsurprising. Our "empathy circuits" evolved in an environment of competition, where we might have a maximum of 150 people in our "in-group". Empathy was not extended beyond those limits, as a rule. It has always been alarmingly easy for humans to suspend their "natural" empathy for the suffering of other beings, especially when that suffering is in their own interests / for their own protection.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #16
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,517

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanton Moore View Post
    I dislike the word 'evil'.
    It externalizes the idea, thus making it easier to deny that we are all capable if it given the right (or wrong) circumstances.
    I dislike it even more because no one is able to provide a reliable definition, so we are all at least on the same page in our discussion.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #17

    Default

    On the one hand the guy seems to suggest that structural and deterministic factors are worth considering seriously but then seems to say that individual human beings arent going to make sense.

    To be honest that sort of inconsistency and not caring too much about it is what I've come to expect from intellectuals today.

  8. #18
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I dislike it even more because no one is able to provide a reliable definition, so we are all at least on the same page in our discussion.
    Baron-Cohen defines evil as "zero degrees of empathy". I'd say zero degrees of empathy provides the environment in which evil can flourish, rather than being a definition of evil. (Which is perhaps the more important point than getting too hung up on definitions.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #19
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,517

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Baron-Cohen defines evil as "zero degrees of empathy". I'd say zero degrees of empathy provides the environment in which evil can flourish, rather than being a definition of evil. (Which is perhaps the more important point than getting too hung up on definitions.)
    I can't access the video now, but agree with your comment. The OP is asking a question that has no definitive answer because it is too ill-formed.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #20
    garbage
    Guest

    Default

    Thought barf on the definition of evil:

    Evil is nebulous. It's 'supposed' to be nebulous; being nebulous serves a psychologically useful purpose. It's "the other"; it's visceral; it's a thing that we can point to and say "that is bad and should be avoided," etc.

    When we attempt to crisply define it, we're most probably defining something else. That 'something else' is related in some way--it can be, say, a cultural context or a related term (empathy). That 'something else' can also be very, very useful to study--it can help us, say, tease out why people do the things they do.

    The difference between that 'something else' and 'evil' is mostly semantic. But it's important to recognize that we reserve 'evil' for the harshest of harsh judgments; and that to toss it out too freely dilutes the term, has the potential to stigmatize, and renders it void of its actual, useful (though imprecise) meaning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Baron-Cohen defines evil as "zero degrees of empathy". I'd say zero degrees of empathy provides the environment in which evil can flourish, rather than being a definition of evil. (Which is perhaps the more important point than getting too hung up on definitions.)
    Yup, Baron-Cohen points us at one of the best related terms for us to study--empathy. @Moniker's OP itself is an example of the relationship between empathy and evil, having mentioned empathy a couple of times.

Similar Threads

  1. The Purpose of Evil
    By serenesam in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 76
    Last Post: 01-25-2015, 05:48 AM
  2. The Banality of Evil
    By Mole in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 04-30-2014, 08:59 AM
  3. Descartes and the Problem of Evil
    By Into It in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-07-2010, 08:19 AM
  4. Is Dark Metal the root of evil in the axis of Fi ?
    By entropie in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 01-27-2010, 07:51 AM
  5. Which pairings would be "the lesser of two evils"?
    By cheerchick23 in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-17-2009, 02:52 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO