Eternal Sunshine?

[EJCC]

^ Excellent points about coping, [MENTION=7842]Z Buck McFate[/MENTION] and [MENTION=16371]metalmommy[/MENTION].

I agree with many others on this thread, that I wouldn't want to erase my more traumatic (or positive) memories because they've shaped who I am today. I don't want to risk becoming a worse, or less developed, human being, by erasing something that's made me grow.

Additionally:

1. I don't trust myself enough to play God; it's possible that I'd erase a memory that I didn't think would cause the rest of me a lot of harm, were it removed, and then cause serious, unforeseen consequences, such as a negative change in my personality.

2. I am of the opinion that without having suffered, life's joy doesn't feel as joyous.

However... an exception would be if I had seen one horrendous thing, something no human should ever have to see*, that had seared its image into my brain and would haunt me forever. It would be nice to forget the image, but remember the event. If there was a suspicious hole in my memory, right there, I know that I'd try to remember it, and then it would be really bad when I did. But if the memory was technically there, but significantly deadened, then that would be much better.


*examples: The Human Centipede, Cthulhu

 

[Salomé]

@Z Buck & [MENTION=4490]Orangey[/MENTION]
I think you're both making unfounded assumptions about the necessity of bad experiences in producing good judgment.

Are the people you know that have suffered the most misfortune the ones with the best judgment?
Because that has not been my experience at all. Quite the reverse, in fact.

 

[Totenkindly]

Does that mean when you don't know about something that happened you're lying to yourself?
You can't know everything. What's wrong with being the editor of your own story?

I pretty much just meant what I said. For whatever reason, to purposeful deny something that happened (i.e, rejecting a part of the historical record) to me is a factual lie, just like saying that Kennedy was never president in the 60's or that milk is naturally pink and the sun is blue.

I'd even remove pleasurable memories, just so I could experience something again - for the "first" time.

hmmm. So would you know that you removed it, just to experience it again for the first time? I'd still feel a bit weird about doing that, but I wouldn't have the same gut response as I described above. Because I'd be saying, "Hey, I erased my memory just so I could experience it again." Which to me is being honest about what I did and why.... Vs erasing something and then pretending I never erased it.

 

[Rasofy]

No. Resilience is built through painful experiences and, discounting extreme scenarios, erasing these memories could easily do more harm than good.

 

[garbage]

Cool, good question.

I'd do it if I needed it--because I don't particularly need it. That is, I have a really shitty memory as it is, and I've gotten by pretty well so far without having to recall detailed memories of the more tragic past experiences.

For me, experiences simply get mashed into general principles that guide me, either reinforcing them or otherwise modifying them; I tend to discard the experiences themselves afterward. As long as I can keep the wisdom that those memories have contributed to, I'd be all for it.


I wouldn't use this as an immediate fix--to remove immediate memories from the short term--because I want to extract what I can from them, which can take some 'down in the weeds' introspection. Once they're of no further 'use,' though, it's a waste of mental energy to keep them kicking around.

 

[Jaguar]

Would you erase your painful memories?

Never.
They all have contributed to who I am, today.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Are the people you know that have suffered the most misfortune the ones with the best judgment?
Because that has not been my experience at all. Quite the reverse, in fact.

This comes back to the point I was making about the present standards of 'professional mental health' really just not being very good. The people I know who have suffered the most and have only been driven farther into their unconscious coping methods- as a result of not finding the actual source of their suffering- definitely do not have the best judgment.

The causes of suffering are relative- and if we remove that which causes suffering instead of learning how to deal with it, then we'll just 'suffer' from lesser things instead. The 'first world problems' meme exemplifies this rather well. The things which cause suffering will only get more and more pathetic and lame as time goes on.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

from Troubled Childhood May Predict PTSD

As compared with the resilient Danish soldiers, all those who developed PTSD were much more likely to have suffered emotional problems and traumatic events prior to deployment. In fact, the onset of PTSD was not predicted by traumatic war experiences but rather by childhood experiences of violence, especially punishment severe enough to cause bruises, cuts, burns and broken bones. PTSD sufferers were also more likely to have witnessed family violence and to have experienced physical attacks, stalking or death threats by a spouse. They also more often had past experiences that they could not, or would not, talk about.​

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I would. There are certain memories that I think make me weaker rather than stronger despite overcoming them. Grudges, anxieties rooted in things that other people had done. There things I think should be let go of. Other painful memories I might keep.

For instance I might not erase all of a bad relationship but just certain things he said that pop up now when I trying to interact with new people

I generally agree with this.

Experience can increase knowledge, so I would want to keep whatever made me stronger.

Strangely enough the memories I would most like to erase are ones I can't remember. They are memories embedded somewhere in my mind when I was preverbal which I *think* are manifesting themselves through physical pain and generalized anxiety. They aren't memories per se, but negative imprints in my mind that affect me still. If that could alleviate my generalized anxiety disorder, I'd be game for it.

I can also think of a few memories that would be useful to not have that are specific enough that I don't think it would impair my future interactions to be cleared of them.

 

[Salomé]

I pretty much just meant what I said. For whatever reason, to purposeful deny something that happened (i.e, rejecting a part of the historical record) to me is a factual lie, just like saying that Kennedy was never president in the 60's or that milk is naturally pink and the sun is blue.

Wow. That's ... weird.

hmmm. So would you know that you removed it, just to experience it again for the first time? I'd still feel a bit weird about doing that, but I wouldn't have the same gut response as I described above. Because I'd be saying, "Hey, I erased my memory just so I could experience it again." Which to me is being honest about what I did and why.... Vs erasing something and then pretending I never erased it.

What if you didn't pretend? You'd remember the removal, after all. And you'd have knowledge of the event, you'd just be removing the negative (or positive) emotional content.

The example given on the programme was NYPD officers - many of whom committed suicide after 9/11 or else suffered crippling PTSD. I don't see how removing the traumatic memories and feelings associated with that day could be other than a good thing. Especially if it saved a life. Interestingly though, only 20% of officers said they would take a drug to do that. (Presumably the ones who suffered the most.)

It's really weird to me because this is an extension of a natural process. Sometimes the brain manages to forget trauma on its own, as a protective measure.

It's also funny because most people think nothing of going out and drinking themselves into a state of oblivion - not only wrecking their memory of one night but doing lasting damage to their brain and other organs. Something I think is really fucking stupid and wouldn't do...

For me, experiences simply get mashed into general principles that guide me, either reinforcing them or otherwise modifying them; I tend to discard the experiences themselves afterward. As long as I can keep the wisdom that those memories have contributed to, I'd be all for it.

That sounds...useful.

from Troubled Childhood May Predict PTSD

So much for bad experiences building character...

I think the argument that your experiences make you who you are is unconvincing. Our personalities are pretty much formed by the age of 11, after that we're just cataloging experiences. And bad experiences are so utterly arbitrary. Are we really a completely different person because we left the house 5 mins late one day and accidentally ran a child over, say? No. What defines us as who we are is how we would react to such an event, and that potential remains unchanged irrespective of how life plays out.

 

[Udog]

Yes, there would be a few that I would remove. Needlessly painful memories that have no net positive in my life.

However, I personally wouldn't get rid of memories that involved consequences of past mistakes. In my case, the emotional pain of past mistakes is a strong driving factor to not repeat them. I worry that if I removed that and only kept the base lesson, I would be too inclined to repeat the mistake.

 

[Tigerlily]

No, because I'm very distrustful of others, and because painful memories are part of who we are.

 

[Orangey]

@Z Buck & [MENTION=4490]Orangey[/MENTION]
I think you're both making unfounded assumptions about the necessity of bad experiences in producing good judgment.

Are the people you know that have suffered the most misfortune the ones with the best judgment?
Because that has not been my experience at all. Quite the reverse, in fact.

I never claimed that bad experiences make for better judgment as a rule. My point was that I wouldn't want to assume one way or the other, and therefore would not risk altering my judgment by removing experiences that I felt were bad.

 

[Pseudo]

I never claimed that bad experiences make for better judgment as a rule. My point was that I wouldn't want to assume one way or the other, and therefore would not risk altering my judgment by removing experiences that I felt were bad.

I was thinking you could remember you final thoughts on the matter with out remembering the pain it's self. Like remember the point where you finally conjured up the resolve to do something but maybe everything that lead to it??

I think in generally I don't remember things well at all. everything over a year old gets sort of mashed together and fuzzy except when I'm reminded of specific moments. So for me erasing a single point would help me get over things while still retaining the benefits of the vague sense of badness i have about certain time periods .

 

[CrystalViolet]

Wow, I would have to wipe out my entire childhood and early teen years. Not sure that's entirely beneficial.
I haven't experienced a major disaster, severe trauma or anything like that. Wiping that memory could at least help people move on. Relieving a bad memory is hell, something that could cause PTSD would be paralyzing. Yeah, being a little prone towards it, I could see the benefits. Guide lines would have to be tight.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

There are things called God and counseling and therapy and support group.

Though I am sure PTSD can be sheer hell to live with.

 

[Salomé]

Who needs drugs? Plenty of people get brainwashed without them.

 

[cascadeco]

Not sure. I also don't think I've had anything traumatic enough, yet, to warrant the need to erase the memory. I can visualize so many scenarios/horrors some/many people experience or endure that I could totally see the desire to wipe those, and I probably wouldn't feel bad about doing that. Most especially if they haven't made me stronger. I think that while sure, traumatic experiences can build ones' resilience and perhaps they then have a higher threshold of pain in the future, I find it hard to justify the necessity of enduring that or having that pain-bar set higher.

But yeah, like most, I've had negative experiences in my life, I've had pain and felt very isolated from peers at certain points in my life, I've made some dumb choices, and been in some pretty negative relationships, while they were negative experiences, I don't know that I'd wipe them. For me, I don't think they were negative enough, in any horror/traumatic sense, to warrant being wiped, and I learned from them, and learned more about myself/others. There are probably a huge number of experiences though that I don't think I'd learn from, other than learning how much physical pain is possible or how shitty and demonic some people can be - so I'd wipe those, no question, if I experienced them. And I'm quite all right 'knowing' that theoretically, and don't think experiencing it would add to my knowledge, other than horrific visceral memory recalls.

 

[SilkRoad]

I would. There are certain memories that I think make me weaker rather than stronger despite overcoming them. Grudges, anxieties rooted in things that other people had done. There things I think should be let go of. Other painful memories I might keep.

This for me, almost exactly. I think I have memories of bad experiences that I've learned from and it was worth it. And others that I've either learned from and don't feel it was worth it because of the pain/damage involved, or I've kind of failed to learn from them, so far.

If the damage outweighed the benefits, I'd hit the erase button, and I think some things fall into that category. (And I haven't had an immensely traumatic life, either.)

 

[garbage]

You could erase your memory of getting your memory erased! The only downside is that you'd remember the second memory erasing and wonder why you got a memory erasing in the first place.