Insults and the Belonging of the Worthless

[EJCC]

Well, that's true. I mean, I can get rather foul-mouthed with close friends, and we can call each other some pretty bad things, etc.,... and then we laugh because we're all just joking around with each other. If I wasn't so close to them, I'd be afraid my comments would be misconstrued and would never ever risk that. The joke is more about how outrageous and socially inappropriate we can be with each other, yet still know it's all a game.

Exactly.
Although on second thought, I suppose "meaningless" insults may also have some sort of projected meaning, depending on their specificity. Back to the body image example, I'll bet casually calling other people "fat" or "thin" could have a strong impact on their own views on what makes someone "fat" or "thin", and whether someone's status as a "thin" or "fat" person is even important in the first place.

I missed his latter comments. I had viewed his original comments more like Fia's assessment, where an individual who cannot ingratiate themselves into the group begins to label the group negatively to drag them back into (And/or label them as part of) THEIR circle... thus providing some type of experienced connection even if it is negative. But maybe that wasn't correct? The idea in itself is still something I'm pondering.

Oh, ok. That is interesting. What would an example of that be?

 

[Rasofy]

Yeah, and what are YOU smiling at, Mr. Tardypants??

If you want to play, you need to come earlier next time.

Hey, who are you??





(semi private joke )

 

[Anew Leaf]

This thread is officially going south faster than an over eager cheerleader wannabe on prom night.

 

[Little_Sticks]

Case in point. That was not meant as an insult. It's how I perceived you. Certainly you have claimed to perceive me in some very negative ways; should I take your perception of me as such as insulting? Or just insulting in how you have chosen to interact with me?

IOW, just take it as, "If Jenny gave me indirect shit in the political thread, then maybe she was perceiving some really negative things underlying my approach. Kind of like how I'm feeling insulted by her approach."



I did listen more than you seemed to have picked up, but maybe that did not come across. I thought it had. Sorry.

As I've stated in other political discussion over time, I'm more of a centrist who ended up support democrats in the last few years, and I'm really tired of the kind of cynical attitudes I've heard off Fox News and all that kind of shit. When someone approaches a conversation with a similar negativity, my first response can be, "Oh, god, not THIS again." Sorry my recall is off, so I no longer remember the details of that conversation, but I felt as if you had come into that conversation with an already-determined view and were just fishing for information to support it, while pretending to ask questions. So my response at core was negative; that happens to be one of my pet values.



It sounds like I did. I'm sorry if I did. I get stressed during political season anyway.



You don't need to let your guard down, but I appreciate you explaining



I will concede that point; but to me, that's just how people play the game and everyone really knows what is being said. I've seen it time and again on the forum -- someone who just adheres to the letter of the rule to escape discipline, while meanwhile obviously still saying what they think of the other person.



Step back and look at it big picture for a moment... was there any reason to drag the word "cunt" into that discussion AT ALL? Aside from you being pissed and thinking in your head that I was being a major cunt? It's not a word that gets tossed in, and never even had to be. It's just a provocation.

That was the meaning behind your words that I perceived.




I guess I see a different between saying someone freaked out (because that's a quantifiable thing -- you can watch someone freak out), and simply tossing out an insulting like "piece of shit." You seem to personalize a lot more than I do, just by your nature. (No judgment, just stating what seems clear to me.) Believe it or not, the insults HALF roll off my back... on some level it bugs me to hear words like that tossed at me, but I was more annoyed at the thought that the rules might be inconsistently applied, and we have these rules that are not enforced well. That really bugs me. If I was on a forum where there are no such rules, I would have probably just ignored the comments altogether.



Yeah, and what are YOU smiling at, Mr. Tardypants??

If you want to play, you need to come earlier next time.

Alright. Fair enough. I'm logging out. I'll leave you alone.

 

[Rail Tracer]

Insults are important. And their importance is emphasized here because they persist even though they are against the rules we all agree to abide by.

So what is an insult? An insult is like spitting in someone's face. It is showing our victim is worthless.

And we show our victim is worthless because we want to belong, we want to them to be like us. We want them to be worthless like us. So we insult them in order to belong.

This behavior is common in gangs, were we all feel worthless together. And surprisingly, and interestingly, this behavior is common in groups of non-commissioned soldiers. Who would have guessed these armed and trained men feel so worthless together?

There are many here who think insults are fun, but they have a far more serious purpose. And the purpose is not to make the victim feel worthless. It is not to say I am worthless. No, the real purpose of insults is to make us belong.

And the price for belonging is being worthless.

I'd call it ad hominem. I find them more amusing than anything. Because, it just means I/someone may have touched a sensitive spot of another person and their only refuge is to attack me or someone else.

I try not to use them, but it does occur. This is especially true when a topic has gone downhill already.

An insult to an idea is different to an insult of a person, however. Even though by extension, an insult to an idea may be seen as an insult to a person. People need to make the distinction that an insult to an idea does not necessarily mean that a person is insulting the person.

 

[sprinkles]

I was just thinking.

There's porcupine insults and then there's venom insults.

The porcupine insult is defensive. I'm typically a porcupine insulter - I stick my spines out because I'm feeling vulnerable or even hurt.

The venom insult is offensive. It tries to poison and harm the other person for various reasons.

 

[greenfairy]

I was just thinking.

There's porcupine insults and then there's venom insults.

The porcupine insult is defensive. I'm typically a porcupine insulter - I stick my spines out because I'm feeling vulnerable or even hurt.

The venom insult is offensive. It tries to poison and harm the other person for various reasons.

Would an insult count as defensive if you plot it out to be hurtful?

 

[sprinkles]

Would an insult count as defensive if you plot it out to be hurtful?

I dunno. I guess some can be both.

If I'm plotting I'm on the offense though, which usually doesn't happen.

 

[Rail Tracer]

There's porcupine insults and then there's venom insults.

Much like there is a critique, and a CRITIQUE (this clip of The Simpson is in my head >.<.)

 

[garbage]

Well, that's all taken care of.

For the record, though: Queen Ivy isn't the arbiter of what is insulting and what is not. In this case, a multi-page thread in the modbox involving nine people was.

That is, we mods do indeed hash this stuff out as a team.

Carry on

 

[Rail Tracer]

Well, that's all taken care of.

For the record, though: Queen Ivy isn't the arbiter of what is insulting and what is not. In this case, a multi-page thread in the modbox involving nine people was.

That is, we mods do indeed hash this stuff out as a team.

Carry on

*is interested*

What happened?

 

[Mole]

Reading [MENTION=3325]Victor[/MENTION]'s later posts, I'm wondering if he's trying to imply that all "tribes" are based around insults? I'm not really seeing that, but I'm curious as to how that would work... and how a tribe NOT based on insults would work.

Negative feedback loops are stable while positive feedback loops are unstable.

And mutual insults provide a negative feedback loop and so stability; and mutual kindness and encouragement provides a positive feedback loop and instability.

So authoritarian societies are based on mutual insult and so stability; and creative societies are based on mutual kindness and encouragement and so instability.

So whether we prefer stability or instability will tell us whether we are authoritarian or creative.

 

[Redbone]

I have seen this. A put-down or insult to remind a person of their place in the rest of the group. In a "crabs in a bucket" way. "Who do you think you are? You think you're better than us. Well, you're not--you're just a _________ like me and that's all you'll ever be!"

 

[garbage]

*is interested*

What happened?

Every time a bell rings, an angel gets its wings.

So, too, does every reported post generate a thread in the Modbox for all of us to discuss what the hell we should do about it (if anything).

 

[greenfairy]

Online forums where you talk to people anonymously seem to make people feel like they can be a lot meaner than they would be irl. I feel like telling people they're illogical is an insult just as much as any other, but it seems to happen all the time on here, not just a few times to me in the past. But I can't complain too much because I'm guilty of my share of veiled insults.

 

[Jaguar]

Online forums where you talk to people anonymously seem to make people feel like they can be a lot meaner than they would be irl.

I disagree. I have to drive through the forum with my foot on the brake, every day.
You want real insults from me? Only in real life will you get those. Here, I have to be 'Jaguar Lite.'

 

[Mole]

Whether we are authoritarian or creative doesn't matter on Central, for on Central the authoritarian and the creative are both the content of Typology Central.

This is a fascinating discovery because I don't know what it means to be the content of Central, yet I am the content of Central, as are you.

Perhaps if we approach it obliquely: to be the content of Facebook means Facebook owns you and can sell you on to other businesses.

Another oblique approach is to look at another medium such as the book. And we ask, what is the content of the book? Well, the first book printed in 1440 was the Bible, and prior to 1440 the Bible was a manuscript - a manu-script, ie, written manually by hand. So in 1440 they printed for the first time the manuscript of the Bible and called it a book.

So the content of the book is the manuscript. And generalising we can say the content of any medium is the previous medium.

So as far as Central is concerned, we are the previous medium.

This is a blow to the vanity of creative individuals to discover we are simply the content of another medium.

It's like discovering in, "Hitchhikers' Guide to the Galaxy", that we are simply a cosmic experiment carried out by the mice. It is disorientating. It is shocking. It is unbelievable. And worse, it is a blow to our ego.

 

[garbage]

Yes bologna, there are two states: the first is where we talk about something and the second is where we experience something.

The first, where we talk about, usually occurs in the left hemisphere of our brain because that is where we understand words. The second, where we experience, usually occurs in the right hemisphere of our brain where we have immediate experience of the world around us.

For instance, we can talk about insults or we can experience insults by actually insulting someone.

Good stuff, Victor.

I suppose another way to learn is to 'experience' insults is to observe insults being traded among others, what the consequences seem to be for all parties involved, and what factors in one's environment leads one to insult, to experience insults, or to process them in some way or another. It likely doesn't have the same deep impact as experiencing it ourselves, but the stakes are also much lower.

This is a blow to the vanity of creative individuals to discover we are simply the content of another medium.

Good. We absolutely need such blows to our vanity so that we can find self-worth by other means, to evaluate any merit that might be contained in an insult rather than to simply deflect it. That's how we grow.

 

[miss fortune]

Sometimes insults are a good natured ribbing between friends... Everything doesn't need to be read into... I'm guessing you found Whitman a little too American for your tastes

and like jaguar mentioned, I tend to play nice on here compared to real life, even with the jokes, because some people get their feathers all ruffled even over a joke!

also, I think it's a first that you've gotten all the way to page 10 in one of your threads about insults without personally using the term ad hominem...impressive!

 

[Cellmold]

Negative feedback loops are stable while positive feedback loops are unstable.

And mutual insults provide a negative feedback loop and so stability; and mutual kindness and encouragement provides a positive feedback loop and instability.

So authoritarian societies are based on mutual insult and so stability; and creative societies are based on mutual kindness and encouragement and so instability.

So whether we prefer stability or instability will tell us whether we are authoritarian or creative.

And if people are creatively insulting?