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  1. #41
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Your estimation of me is apparently very clueless, as I have been one of Victor's biggest critics over the years. And not necessarily about his content; I get where he is going with many of his posts, but at the same time I think he's less concerned about communicating in ways that actually can make a difference. He's more enamored with his style of exchange and being provocative. I have a hard time catering to that sacrifice of clarity for style.
    I don't give a shit about that and that's not what I'm talking about. You patted him on the back with your first post and made it clear you like "provoking" ideas.

    Meanwhile, you don't really know me, and I don't know who the fuck you are, except for how you lost it during election season, and since then I've stayed away from you.
    Yeah, sure, you post shit assumptions about my motivations and what I believe. I get frustrated and give up because you aren't communicating with me, but insulting. And you have the gall to use that shit against me? You piece of shit. Yeah, and that's real decent; you can say and do whatever you want and how other people react is never at all your responsibility. Pure horseshit.

    I don't really understand why you are holding an ongoing grudge against me, to the point of publicly calling me a cunt (very cute way to word it, by the way, to try to "skirt the rules"); but I'd appreciate if you stopped harassing me needlessly around the forum. I'm fine with not talking to you, and if you can't actually give me a fair shake and keep that venom in your mouth, I'd appreciate you returning the favor. Thanks.
    Oh, gee, more propaganda bullshit. You like to "provoke", but I'm the one holding a grudge. I take offense and call you out on your shit, you play victim. Yeah well, you bite me and I'll bite back, little miss perfect. I can play this game forever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I don't think you have clue one about who Jennifer is. Your post is filled so full of ignorance, I can't help but laugh.
    I know Jennifer likes it when people "provoke". I know Jennifer has made assumptions about me used to insult and attack my positions.

    And nice of you to share your opinions without actually providing anything of substance to back it up. Real cute. Cry me a river.

    Also, spellcheck tells me that "cunt" is spelled with a "c" and my dictionary check on it's definition tells me you don't know how to apply this word properly.
    Is that so? Well it's good to see you can put two and two together. Let's see if you're smart enough to figure out profanity is against the rules (but apparently not fuck and shit).

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    That wasn't even remotely what Jennifer said.
    She's said more than that genius. I shouldn't have to quote everything she's said in the thread. Figure it out or be an idiot.

  2. #42
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    So this thread is about insults, just in a way that's more.. experiential than what I expected.

  3. #43
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    I don't give a shit about that and that's not what I'm talking about. You patted him on the back with your first post and made it clear you like "provoking" ideas.

    Yeah, sure, you post shit assumptions about my motivations and what I believe. I get frustrated and give up because you aren't communicating with me, but insulting. And you have the gall to use that shit against me? You piece of shit. Yeah, and that's real decent; you can say and do whatever you want and how other people react is never at all your responsibility. Pure horseshit.

    Oh, gee, more propaganda bullshit. You like to "provoke", but I'm the one holding a grudge. I take offense and call you out on your shit, you play victim. Yeah well, you bite me and I'll bite back, little miss perfect. I can play this game forever.
    LS, I honestly have no idea what you are going on about. Sorry.

    Again.. maybe you are REALLY misreading something here?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  4. #44
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
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    I don't give a shit about that and that's not what I'm talking about. You patted him on the back with your first post and made it clear you like "provoking" ideas.
    Liking provocative ideas and liking to provoke people are, despite the similarity of the words, worlds apart. Sounds like you felt really wounded by something Jennifer said in another thread and have let it fester. If you feel Jennifer has seriously wronged, insulted or "provoked" you, now or (ahem) in the past, you should deal with it to the standards of fairness and understanding you are blaming Jennifer for supposedly lacking. Even if it were true what you said about her, two wrongs wouldn't make a right.
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  5. #45
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    This is an interesting idea which hadn't occurred to me before, @Victor. I'll have to think on it some more. It presents an interesting dichotomy because externally the insult is rejection, it pushes the person away, but internally it does project one's own worthlessness and more closely joins the two together.

    What has occurred to me is that when someone instills a negative feeling in another person, by nature they are often infusing that person with the negative feelings which are a part of their own self. I have learned alot about other people based on how they make me feel. It is something akin to a forced empathy. I suspect that people who hurt have a strong desire to be understood and so they role play the part of the oppressor they have faced and make the other person the victim they have been.
    I like this a lot. It's interesting to think of in this way because, ordinarily, we think of insults purely as putting people down. We don't tend to see them as a method of establishing kinship with others. Maybe it's a more toxic version of what we do when we commiserate and share painful stories with friends. In either case, the intent is to feel less alone, not only in the sense that we are not the only ones with flaws, but also in the sense that we are not the only ones who face oppression and judgment.

    And then, there's always the delusion that if we become the judge ourselves, we are no longer the judged.

    Much thanks for the thread, Victor.
    They're running just like you
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  6. #46
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I have been one of Victor's biggest critics over the years. And not necessarily about his content; I get where he is going with many of his posts, but at the same time I think he's less concerned about communicating in ways that actually can make a difference. He's more enamored with his style of exchange and being provocative. I have a hard time catering to that sacrifice of clarity for style.
    Dear Jennifer, let me try and explain what it is like for me.

    Yesterday I was sitting in the foyer of the movie theatre waiting for the movie to start. I'd had a nice dinner, I was relaxed and I could feel myself going into a light trance. At the same time I could see and hear all the people around me. I could see the way they were moving, the tone of their voices and hear their conversations. And I knew if I tried to speak to them while I was in a trance, they would be disconcerted and on reflection might say, like you, I was sacrificing clarity for style.

    On the other hand, when in a trance, I have a strong desire to communicate my experience to others. But I know that in normal conversation almost everyone is wide awake and find going into a trance to be, at the very least, a faux pas.

    But I was invited to come to Central by Geoff because it was well run and tolerant. And so I lean on the tolerance of Central and sometimes write in a light trance.

    This is usually met by incomprehsion and affront. I have tried to explain what I am doing in the past, but this is like water bouncing off a stone.

    So I approach the stone with new, or as you say, provocative ideas in the hope this might precipitate the reader into a light trance with me.

    But so far with very little luck.

    For instance we would be sharing a light trance if we could share an imaginary telephone conversation with your cats. Or we would be sharing a light trance if we were sharing imaginary conversations with Mole and Ratty.

    Just as a matter of interest, trance has a variety of depths and the imagination is only the first level of trance, and as we move deeper, the imagination disappears as do words.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mempy View Post
    Much thanks for the thread, Victor.
    No worries, mate.

    Also one of the functions of insults is to arrest the slide into trance.

    Our survival instinct is aroused if we start to involuntarily slide into trance, and our survival instinct will take violent verbal action to arrest the slide and return us to the wide awake state where we feel we are safe.

  8. #48
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Dear Jennifer, let me try and explain what it is like for me.

    Yesterday I was sitting in the foyer of the movie theatre waiting for the movie to start. I'd had a nice dinner, I was relaxed and I could feel myself going into a light trance. At the same time I could see and hear all the people around me. I could see the way they were moving, the tone of their voices and hear their conversations. And I knew if I tried to speak to them while I was in a trance, they would be disconcerted and on reflection might say, like you, I was sacrificing clarity for style.

    On the other hand, when in a trance, I have a strong desire to communicate my experience to others. But I know that in normal conversation almost everyone is wide awake and find going into a trance to be, at the very least, a faux pas.

    But I was invited to come to Central by Geoff because it was well run and tolerant. And so I lean on the tolerance of Central and sometimes write in a light trance.

    This is usually met by incomprehsion and affront. I have tried to explain what I am doing in the past, but this is like water bouncing off a stone.

    So I approach the stone with new, or as you say, provocative ideas in the hope this might precipitate the reader into a light trance with me.

    But so far with very little luck.
    as a small side note, with the "incomprehension and affront" comment, I think some of it comes from repeated criticisms (such as about the MBTI) where I think people actually have heard your point the first time and examined it and made whatever connection was apparent, but it simply would be repeated time and time again, thread after thread, as if people had missed it the first time. I tend to do poorly when it comes to topics I can parse with my rationality and I find flaws.

    But i understand the trance. I can feel myself slip into it sometimes, when I'm just quiet and soaking up what is going on around me. It's slipping between moments and becoming part of the wide river washing through all those moments and entities. It is a different way of being.

    For instance we would be sharing a light trance if we could share an imaginary telephone conversation with your cats. Or we would be sharing a light trance if we were sharing imaginary conversations with Mole and Ratty.
    Alas, I have never yet read the latter book, I just knew it meant something to you and thus it passed into mind. But my cat, ah, my cat is another matter entirely, he I understand. I would hear a call at work but not answer the ring, it would be him I knew, and he would demand I come home straightaway and crack open another can of food for his bowl, tuna with gravy or chicken and liver with gravy or some other ridiculous moisty meat product with gravy (ALWAYS with gravy) and I simply did not want to hear it any longer. As he assaults me as soon as I walk through the door, running back and forth as if on fire, knocking his bowl across the room in his mad haste to sate his stomach, and I feel like little more than a human pez dispenser to feed his mad sugar-junkie rush. What would you say to him, if you could see him? Would you find something else lurking within that catty brain, back behind the whiskers?

    I actually followed your OP, btw, and thought it provocative in a positive sense -- one of the more enlightening things I have seen you write. I had never really thought of it on my own, but I easily followed where you were going. If someone cannot receive a line tossed to them from another, then they will toss their own line to bring them back to their level. My only issue (and I'm sorry to spoil it) is just that I don't think insults always serve that function; I think in the last twenty posts or so, people can see insults that are not serving the purpose of making connection...or maybe they were? I don't know, honestly. I know Fia picked up on what you were saying as well.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  9. #49
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Alas, I have never yet read the latter book, I just knew it meant something to you and thus it passed into mind. But my cat, ah, my cat is another matter entirely, he I understand. I would hear a call at work but not answer the ring, it would be him I knew, and he would demand I come home straightaway and crack open another can of food for his bowl, tuna with gravy or chicken and liver with gravy or some other ridiculous moisty meat product with gravy (ALWAYS with gravy) and I simply did not want to hear it any longer. As he assaults me as soon as I walk through the door, running back and forth as if on fire, knocking his bowl across the room in his mad haste to sate his stomach, and I feel like little more than a human pez dispenser to feed his mad sugar-junkie rush. What would you say to him, if you could see him? Would you find something else lurking within that catty brain, back behind the whiskers?




    This is sooooooo True!! They get freakin addicted to canned food.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    So this thread is about insults, just in a way that's more.. experiential than what I expected.
    Yes bologna, there are two states: the first is where we talk about something and the second is where we experience something.

    The first, where we talk about, usually occurs in the left hemisphere of our brain because that is where we understand words. The second, where we experience, usually occurs in the right hemisphere of our brain where we have immediate experience of the world around us.

    For instance, we can talk about insults or we can experience insults by actually insulting someone.

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