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  1. #21
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I relate to virtually everything you said, except professional meetings can cause the same problem. I've even adjusted my career so I work primarily one-on-one. I think it is a strongly introverted issue because that means you take in too much information initially and have to have introverted time to process. I observe a great many details one-on-one, and when in a group it feels like the world is a kaleidoscope.
    That's interesting. It's exactly like how it feels to me. I wonder if some of it depends on how you respond to these natural tendencies. I was always very ambitious. I knew that in the work world, I could not realize my ambitions if I didn't obtain some level of competency at these things. When I was in college, I sought out situations where I would be uncomfortable. I took public speaking classes that I didn't need. I got a security guard job in a girls dormitory where I was forced to interact with people I didn't know. I sought to become president of my fraternity where I would have to run chapter and executive board meetings. When I was getting a masters, I found that I could interact in classes by asking a lot of questions - just allow my natural proclivity to do this in private and extend it. So that's what I did. I still need my alone time or one on one time because too much interaction, though I can enjoy it for short periods, wears me down. It has been an ongoing thing over many years and I'll make progress, slip back a little, make more progress, etc. Then secretly, I yearn to build a house on a lake in a semi isolated area when I don't have to do these things to make a living....
    Last edited by highlander; 11-26-2012 at 01:42 PM.

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  2. #22
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    If I can make my presence felt enough to break into the conversation, and speak loudly enough to make myself heard, I like them. Otherwise I get bored and resentful.

  3. #23
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    If I can make my presence felt enough to break into the conversation, and speak loudly enough to make myself heard, I like them. Otherwise I get bored and resentful.
    Yes that can be a problem too. I don't fully understand the dynamics of it and it is occasionally frustrating. Some of this might relate to an Ni context shift in a conversation - it's changes or shifts the conversation in a direction which people may not have been expecting so it throws them off and they ignore it.

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  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Yes that can be a problem too. I don't fully understand the dynamics of it and it is occasionally frustrating. Some of this might relate to an Ni context shift in a conversation - it's changes or shifts the conversation in a direction which people may not have been expecting so it throws them off and they ignore it.
    I've to deal with a big group discussion on tuesday and I'm not looking forward to it because what you describe here and what green fairy described is what I'm just anticipating is going to happen.

    Also a lot of abdicating responsibility among the supposed leader/manager and some score settling but anyway.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I've always been really good with one on one conversations. I feel comfortable. I like getting to know people. I really enjoy talking to them. On the other hand, when I'm part of a group - more than 3 people - I tend to clam up. There is this fast paced bantering going back and forth that often happens and I lose track of what they are talking about. I don't hear the jokes. Part of it is getting bored. If I can't influence the direction of the conversation, I have a hard time staying with it. I'm pretty good at catching the body language between people and getting a sense as to how they are feeling. Often there is a lot of background noise though and that doesn't help because I sometimes have a hard time hearing what people are saying (I have always had this problem). If I'm in a group and am actively contributing ideas and asking questions, etc. (i.e. at work) and we are talking about something interesting, and we are in a meeting room without the background noise, I have no problem. It's more with social situations. So, if I'm at a party, I will talk to people one on one. I'll make the rounds but I'll stay out of those group discussions and if my one on one discussion turns into a group, I'll generally find myself going somewhere else at the first possible opportunity.

    I've wondered if this is type related at all. Anyone else experience this?

    That sounds very much like me, actually. I actually hear everything going on and catch the jokes, but I don't feel like I have a place. In a casual gathering, I actually often play the quirky/funny one, so when I've attended gatherings where I'm with someone funnier/faster than me, I have to figure out a new role. IN a serious group, I'm the one who likes to come out with something from left field that stuns everyone and then they take the conversation in a new direction; I like to reorient/reframe discussions to help people see them in a new light.

    In a group of people I consider friends and know well, I can handle a dynamic of more than 2-3 people without needing a conscious role. Or if it's people who are very similar in personality to me (a bunch of Ne pinger types) where we are bouncing off each other like ping-pong balls in a bingo box.

    Typically I do what you do -- either I stay with the group and clam up, because I can't figure out my role and how to fill a niche, or I give up and kind of disappear and either be by myself (or get on my cell phone) or I find someone I can talk to one-on-one out of the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I relate to virtually everything you said, except professional meetings can cause the same problem. I've even adjusted my career so I work primarily one-on-one. I think it is a strongly introverted issue because that means you take in too much information initially and have to have introverted time to process. I observe a great many details one-on-one, and when in a group it feels like the world is a kaleidoscope.
    I know! It's beautiful!!!

    Anyway, there is where my Ne-type nature comes out. I mean, as I've said, it has to be people where I have a "place" in the conversation rather than being scared of offending someone or stepping on toes -- and I have to feel like I actually know something about the topic, I've been criticized by management at work for not engaging as much in group discussion where I've been unsure about the information -- but if it's the right group, I actually get stimulated by all the ideas and seeing how they play off either other. It's obvious in that context it's less about understanding all the details and more seeing all the multiple pathways that radiate off something someone said, and my brain is firing off down each path simultaneously.

    For professional meetings, I do agree with @Lark where the leader of the meeting is not making sure the meeting is useful -- either letting 1-2 voices dominate and not making space for alternate views to be heard, not having a clear agenda, letting everyone be swamped by mounds of detail without any clarity as to what it's to be used for, etc. I do poorly in environments like those; I see them as SUCH a mess that I simply shut up and just wait for the debacle to be over, as I am not in charge and have no way to effect any change.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    For professional meetings, I do agree with @Lark where the leader of the meeting is not making sure the meeting is useful -- either letting 1-2 voices dominate and not making space for alternate views to be heard, not having a clear agenda, letting everyone be swamped by mounds of detail without any clarity as to what it's to be used for, etc. I do poorly in environments like those; I see them as SUCH a mess that I simply shut up and just wait for the debacle to be over, as I am not in charge and have no way to effect any change.
    I've come to realise this is the only way to deal with this, its taken a lot of time and perhaps its not a good thing that I've despaired of it being any different but that's how it goes.

  7. #27
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    I don't like one on one because there's so much pressure on me to keep the conversation going (unless we're very close and we have something specific to talk about), and large groups are exhausting (and often boring), especially in a noisy space or people I don't know well. My preference would be in the 3-5 people range, where I spend most of the time listening.
    -end of thread-

  8. #28
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Yes that can be a problem too. I don't fully understand the dynamics of it and it is occasionally frustrating. Some of this might relate to an Ni context shift in a conversation - it's changes or shifts the conversation in a direction which people may not have been expecting so it throws them off and they ignore it.
    Hm, yeah maybe. That's an interesting thought.

  9. #29
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I've always been really good with one on one conversations. I feel comfortable. I like getting to know people. I really enjoy talking to them. On the other hand, when I'm part of a group - more than 3 people - I tend to clam up. There is this fast paced bantering going back and forth that often happens and I lose track of what they are talking about. I don't hear the jokes. Part of it is getting bored. If I can't influence the direction of the conversation, I have a hard time staying with it. I'm pretty good at catching the body language between people and getting a sense as to how they are feeling. Often there is a lot of background noise though and that doesn't help because I sometimes have a hard time hearing what people are saying (I have always had this problem). If I'm in a group and am actively contributing ideas and asking questions, etc. (i.e. at work) and we are talking about something interesting, and we are in a meeting room without the background noise, I have no problem. It's more with social situations. So, if I'm at a party, I will talk to people one on one. I'll make the rounds but I'll stay out of those group discussions and if my one on one discussion turns into a group, I'll generally find myself going somewhere else at the first possible opportunity.

    I've wondered if this is type related at all. Anyone else experience this?
    For me, it depends completely on how well I know the people involved. If it's people I know well, I am comfortable in both one on one and group settings, although even with my closest friends, both can be draining for me, especially groups. I can usually only last about 2 hours in a group conversation/setting and then I start checking out.

    If it's people I don't know at all or don't know well, one on one can be find for awhile because I can make small talk, but a group setting with people I don't know is an absolute nightmare, the exception being the bolded above.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I basically feel very similarly with almost all of this. INxJ thing?

    Although, I'm not sure I'd say I'm always good at one on one. There are some people with whom I rapidly run out of things to say (and they might be new acquaintances, or people I know somewhat better) and then it's awkward.
    This resonates with me as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The other thing I dont like about group discussions is that I find a lot of people who have nothing to say will choose to speak anyway purely in order to have their say or their their turn or be seen to be participating. Then when someone who does not usually participate or has difficulty doing so if they do partake and fluff what they mean to say or can not articulate what they mean and others seek to silence them some how, using again the group dynamic, that pisses me off too.
    Yes, there is this... work meetings/discussions I typically find fruitful and interesting, if I have something to contribute and people are good about allowing everyone to contribute instead of just letting the talkers talk. What I really hate is when I DO have something to contribute, but I can't get in a word edgewise because people are making the same point over and over again. In these situations, I tend to do like @Jennifer and just shut down.
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

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  10. #30
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Im not particularly comfortable in either. But im better at groups than one on one.

    Mainly because in a group you can parrot information and blend in somewhat. One on one im forced to rely on my own understanding and initiative, which is inadequate.

    Online this is not so pronounced though. Things are best for me when im interacting with the group or individual such as playing a board or video game together where I dont feel as obligated to provide an interesting discussion.

    If im not doing something I get restless and look for some excuse to do something....otherwise it is a very awkward and boring interaction for all involved.

    *EDIT* Actually to add to this online im almost bullish and often too dominating in conversations, especially group ones.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
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