What gives anyone the right to be unhappy when there always someone worse off?

[Lark]

Those kids in Africa have nothing to do with you. It's just a cheap tactic of guilt tripping.

There are kids starving on your door step, being abused and killed too, there's no need to think that "war is elsewhere" and you're living in an oasis too.

I dont think there's any need for guilt tripping but I think there's reasonable expectation to have a social conscience too, also without becoming dispirited or depressed its probably correct to have a reality check once in a while as to how much more happy it would be possible to be if the necessary adjustments and changes could be made to social structures in order to make it so, for your self.

 

[Lark]

I do not mean to sound cavalier. I have a sign over my sink which says, "Put your big girl panties on and deal with it." Self-pity is my worst enemy. This is how I fight it.

What do you mean by pfc? Actually can you expand a little more on what you mean by your entire second paragraph?

I like that approach too personally, I also take it and I find its a quick way to get others reliant on you in the right context because there's so, so many people who arent prepared to deal and will just founder, panick and drown, they'll cling and cleave to anyone who doesnt seem to be like a saviour.

Although, and this could perhaps feed into the other thread on power and control, I damn well hate it when anyone else is telling me this, pretty much because "yeah, I know and I've already thought about it bastard!" is what my inner voice tells me any time anyone does.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

The only way to make sense of this is to tie it all together. How can I turn my unhappiness into happiness in a way that aids the starving children in Africa?

...So, you know, those children can then aid the less fortunate tortured children in North Korea.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Well, I can definitely understand that and it's good not to wallow in self-pity, so I apologize if I was a bit harsh on you. By the pfc I mean the prefrontal cortex. While I am not a proponent of determinism and there environmental factors can impact its development as well and even that is just a small part of an even larger whole, the pfc is very important in many tasks involving self -restraint/self-regulation as well as making ethical connections and realizations such as thinking about the consequences of one's actions and feeling a sense of remorse for hurting another person.

I would recommend this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1693445/

That article is fascinating. I tend to go about truth-seeking from a different perspective. Hmm. How do I explain?

As I was reading the article, I was thinking about a lot of the people I have known over the years. Recovering alcoholics in particular. So many of them said and did horrible things when they were drinking. It wasn't easy but they were able to learn a better way. They were able to make amends for the wrongs they did. A lot of these people are textbook examples of poor self-control. When I overlay the vast majority of human experiences I know about onto that article, the theory in the article falls short. Free will is backed up by experience. Strict biology isn't. I reject most religious claims on the same basis. The claims and human experience don't line up. I side with human experience and reject the claims.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

The only way to make sense of this is to tie it all together. How can I turn my unhappiness into happiness in a way that aids the starving children in Africa?

...So, you know, those children can then aid the less fortunate tortured children in North Korea.

Brilliant idea!

 

[tkae.]

So people should grieve the loss of loved ones their entire lives and be miserable? That is more honorable than having a positive attitude in life and lifting people up? And moving on beyond sadness to productiveness?

I hate the "whoa is me" crap people love to wager on themselves and using 9-11 to get your point across is disrespectful to the victims of 9-11. That's my pinyin.

Your entire view of human suffering is disrespectful, so I reserve the right to use them as an example to counter your total apathy.

Your entire method is just masking pain in order to let everyone around the person go on with their lives like it's all Candy Land. Newsflash: life sucks. Everyone's life sucks. We're all fragile creatures struggling against insane odds where a confrontation with our own mortality is around corner. It's a right to be miserable. A person who society says "should" be happy is just someone who has material comfort which is totally unrelated to emotional pain and existential threat. A fluffy couch won't stop cancer, a Mercedes Benz won't stop your wife from getting shot in a bank robbery.

Beyond traumatic events, everybody has the right to have a shitty day. I do my best to always be smiling and to help make the days of people around me better, and even I have to take a day off sometimes.

To answer your question, my entire point, unlike yours, isn't what people should or shouldn't do. They can be miserable the rest of their lives if that's how they feel. Or even if you're right and we can all just snap our fingers and be happy, you have no right to tell them what to do. They can be angry about a new flavor of potato chips if they want, and you can't tell them they're wrong for it.

It's amazing to me how many people in this thread view themselves as the emotion police.

A person's inner processes are their own fucking business. Have we gotten that interested in each other that not even our emotional lives and thoughts are off limits? We don't need reasons for why we feel or don't feel. And as far as the question of the thread is concerned, human suffering is unrelated to material wealth. It's not a math equation. +10 comfort from a nice car doesn't offset a -4 from their doctor telling them they have high cholesterol.

DESPITE the fact they can go home in a cool car, they still have high cholesterol. Rich people suffer just like everyone else. In 2012, how is it still a question whether any human -- no matter their race, sexuality, or (for fuck's sake) economic status -- is as human as anybody else? We all blind, we all think, we all breathe, we all FEEL. Just as strongly as each other, give or take the variations of personality theory.

 

[Viridian]

So, um, has anyone mentioned clinical depression yet?... Has the thread gone to hell too much for me to do so?

 

[Coriolis]

Happy or unhappy is beside the point. However many people there may be who are worse (or better) off, we always have the right and often the responsibility to improve our lot. Often, by doing so, we improve the lot of those around us.

I've always been confused when people say you have no right to be unhappy because others are suffering. Oh, others are suffering and starving... that reminds me to be happy?

I think we are much more reactionary than we'd like to think. It feels better to assume we have unlimited free-will to control our lives and outcomes, but there is no proof of this assumption. When there is unhappiness, it seems more productive to look for the root causes and correct these. Is it a chemical imbalance? Psychological issue? Poor nutrition? Mind games have never worked for me. I can't fool myself into feeling something, and have found the problem solving approach to be much more efficient.

We feel what we feel - it is generally counterproductive to try to control that. Our expression of our feelings is another matter, though. However unhappy we feel, we do not need to go through the day whining about our lot, whether there are others worse or better off than us. Yes, the practical approach of solving our actual problems is much more effective, and palatable to others.

 

[Kierva]

There are kids starving on your door step, being abused and killed too, there's no need to think that "war is elsewhere" and you're living in an oasis too.

I dont think there's any need for guilt tripping but I think there's reasonable expectation to have a social conscience too, also without becoming dispirited or depressed its probably correct to have a reality check once in a while as to how much more happy it would be possible to be if the necessary adjustments and changes could be made to social structures in order to make it so, for your self.

Unless those kids have a relationship with me, they really have no business in my conscience.

 

[Lark]

Unless those kids have a relationship with me, they really have no business in my conscience.

I can understand not being neurotic about strangers welfare but to be honest human empathy should provoke some response.

 

[Isis]

Your entire view of human suffering is disrespectful, so I reserve the right to use them as an example to counter your total apathy.

Your entire method is just masking pain in order to let everyone around the person go on with their lives like it's all Candy Land. Newsflash: life sucks. Everyone's life sucks. We're all fragile creatures struggling against insane odds where a confrontation with our own mortality is around corner. It's a right to be miserable. A person who society says "should" be happy is just someone who has material comfort which is totally unrelated to emotional pain and existential threat. A fluffy couch won't stop cancer, a Mercedes Benz won't stop your wife from getting shot in a bank robbery.

Beyond traumatic events, everybody has the right to have a shitty day. I do my best to always be smiling and to help make the days of people around me better, and even I have to take a day off sometimes.

To answer your question, my entire point, unlike yours, isn't what people should or shouldn't do. They can be miserable the rest of their lives if that's how they feel. Or even if you're right and we can all just snap our fingers and be happy, you have no right to tell them what to do. They can be angry about a new flavor of potato chips if they want, and you can't tell them they're wrong for it.

It's amazing to me how many people in this thread view themselves as the emotion police.

A person's inner processes are their own fucking business. Have we gotten that interested in each other that not even our emotional lives and thoughts are off limits? We don't need reasons for why we feel or don't feel. And as far as the question of the thread is concerned, human suffering is unrelated to material wealth. It's not a math equation. +10 comfort from a nice car doesn't offset a -4 from their doctor telling them they have high cholesterol.

DESPITE the fact they can go home in a cool car, they still have high cholesterol. Rich people suffer just like everyone else. In 2012, how is it still a question whether any human -- no matter their race, sexuality, or (for fuck's sake) economic status -- is as human as anybody else? We all blind, we all think, we all breathe, we all FEEL. Just as strongly as each other, give or take the variations of personality theory.

I've experienced tragedy in my life. And I've experienced despair. And my spiritual belief is to have patience with every single thing life brings your way. And for each negative- 10 positives are given to you by God. Either here or in the afterlife- he is most merciful. So that is my take on life. And people are overly selfish and negative. They don't see the bigger picture and wallow in despair far too much. If they turned to their creator- they would not feel as sorry for themselves and have a victim mentality but rather give themselves to a higher power. Sorry that my opinion offends you. But it stands. (Not trying to offend you.)

 

[Salomé]

Why? Will my unhappiness improve their lot in life?

I believe that to have an attitude of happiness no matter what is a sign of great character.

Not really. It just means you've put up a lot of walls...

My goodness, if I wait until sorrow and anguish and suffering are gone from this earth before I am happy, I will never be happy.

And why would that be such a terrible thing ? Happiness is overrated. I find happy people insufferably dull. And rather scary. To live in denial is not much of a life, IMO.
If it was possible to alter your brain (chemically/ structurally) so that you could never again be unhappy, there are people who would choose that... People lacking in character and depth.

Still, good for you. It's awesome that you're happy.

lol Privilege I did not come from, I can assure you.
My perspective comes from FAITH in a higher being. In the belief that this earth is an illusion and the real life is in the hereafter. People that have turned against their creator get sad and feel sorry for themselves. I have seen people with nothing SMILE. THAT IS FAITH.

Happiness is a choice. Attitude is a choice.

Faith is not a choice. It is a delusion.

 

[Lark]

Not really. It just means you've put up a lot of walls...

And why would that be such a terrible thing ? Happiness is overrated. I find happy people insufferably dull. And rather scary. To live in denial is not much of a life, IMO.
If it was possible to alter your brain (chemically/ structurally) so that you could never again be unhappy, there are people who would choose that... People lacking in character and depth.

Still, good for you. It's awesome that you're happy.
Faith is not a choice. It is a delusion.

Beginning the count down now...

 

[Viridian]

Well, this thread got into a whirlpool pretty fast...

 

[garbage]

I'm surprised that there's no mention of hedonic adaptation.

Brickman, Coates, and Janoff-Bulman (1978) used the idea of the hedonic treadmill to explain how people with a wide variety of resources or lack of resources can maintain similar levels of happiness. They showed that people readily adapt to their fortunes or misfortunes. Lottery winners, for example, may experience an initial emotional high, but report about the same level of happiness they previously held after time passed. Similarly, paraplegics reported below average levels of happiness for about two months on average after the accident but eventually returned to the set point they previously held.

So those people that you think are much worse off than you might not be so bad off, at least in their own hearts and minds, after all.

This is but one perspective, though--it's not a solution, but it's a perspective to keep in mind. In our hearts of hearts we're still going to feel the weight of the human condition in a more general sense.

 

[Coriolis]

I can understand not being neurotic about strangers welfare but to be honest human empathy should provoke some response.

Human empathy causes me to want to DO something to ease suffering in the world. Most times, there is little I can do for starving children on the other side of the world, but much more I can do for the ones down the street. My energy would be better spent on situations I can actually affect, and directed toward where my efforts will have the greatest impact. Getting worked up over the rest is wasted energy.

 

[kyuuei]

I'm with Jivinjeffjones on that one--I have every right to be happy even though people have much better situations than I do. I'm not responsible for the happiness, or lack thereof, of others, so I don't feel their weight the same as I feel my own. What triggers my happiness and unhappiness is different from others. If I spent all day dick-measuring everything and everyone in the world I'd find that I amount to nothing really. Nothing would matter. I wouldn't care if I got mistreated in the work place because there are women who cannot work. I wouldn't feel happy helping others because so many went without my help. I couldn't take any satisfaction out of sex because there are eunuchs in the world. It'd be a vast blob of nothingness and I'd be a robot and slave to my own contest.

Luckily, however, I don't compare myself to others, so I have a array of emotions at my disposal.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

lol Privilege I did not come from, I can assure you.
My perspective comes from FAITH in a higher being. In the belief that this earth is an illusion and the real life is in the hereafter. People that have turned against their creator get sad and feel sorry for themselves. I have seen people with nothing SMILE. THAT IS FAITH.

Happiness is a choice. Attitude is a choice.

So let me ask you this:

How would these people react if they were given their dreams?

They might say God sent them these gifts, but would they be happier with them now then without them?

I mean was that smile when they had nothing truly representing happiness?

 

[Lark]

Human empathy causes me to want to DO something to ease suffering in the world. Most times, there is little I can do for starving children on the other side of the world, but much more I can do for the ones down the street. My energy would be better spent on situations I can actually affect, and directed toward where my efforts will have the greatest impact. Getting worked up over the rest is wasted energy.

I dont believe it is wasted but I think you have a good point here. While I think its only fair that people can have a global outlook, their actions or sphere of influence is likely to be local or personal.

 

[Coriolis]

I dont believe it is wasted but I think you have a good point here. While I think its only fair that people can have a global outlook, their actions or sphere of influence is likely to be local or personal.

The distinction I am making is not so much global vs. local, as one of personal scope. No one of us can fix everything, or address even more than a small subset of the world's problems. We can make a distant or international need our cause, but then we won't have much left for local concerns. If everyone does something, though, every problem should have someone working on it.