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  1. #41
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetani View Post
    Those kids in Africa have nothing to do with you. It's just a cheap tactic of guilt tripping.
    There are kids starving on your door step, being abused and killed too, there's no need to think that "war is elsewhere" and you're living in an oasis too.

    I dont think there's any need for guilt tripping but I think there's reasonable expectation to have a social conscience too, also without becoming dispirited or depressed its probably correct to have a reality check once in a while as to how much more happy it would be possible to be if the necessary adjustments and changes could be made to social structures in order to make it so, for your self.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincessButtercup View Post
    I do not mean to sound cavalier. I have a sign over my sink which says, "Put your big girl panties on and deal with it." Self-pity is my worst enemy. This is how I fight it.

    What do you mean by pfc? Actually can you expand a little more on what you mean by your entire second paragraph?
    I like that approach too personally, I also take it and I find its a quick way to get others reliant on you in the right context because there's so, so many people who arent prepared to deal and will just founder, panick and drown, they'll cling and cleave to anyone who doesnt seem to be like a saviour.

    Although, and this could perhaps feed into the other thread on power and control, I damn well hate it when anyone else is telling me this, pretty much because "yeah, I know and I've already thought about it bastard!" is what my inner voice tells me any time anyone does.

  3. #43
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    The only way to make sense of this is to tie it all together. How can I turn my unhappiness into happiness in a way that aids the starving children in Africa?

    ...So, you know, those children can then aid the less fortunate tortured children in North Korea.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    Well, I can definitely understand that and it's good not to wallow in self-pity, so I apologize if I was a bit harsh on you. By the pfc I mean the prefrontal cortex. While I am not a proponent of determinism and there environmental factors can impact its development as well and even that is just a small part of an even larger whole, the pfc is very important in many tasks involving self -restraint/self-regulation as well as making ethical connections and realizations such as thinking about the consequences of one's actions and feeling a sense of remorse for hurting another person.

    I would recommend this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1693445/
    That article is fascinating. I tend to go about truth-seeking from a different perspective. Hmm. How do I explain?

    As I was reading the article, I was thinking about a lot of the people I have known over the years. Recovering alcoholics in particular. So many of them said and did horrible things when they were drinking. It wasn't easy but they were able to learn a better way. They were able to make amends for the wrongs they did. A lot of these people are textbook examples of poor self-control. When I overlay the vast majority of human experiences I know about onto that article, the theory in the article falls short. Free will is backed up by experience. Strict biology isn't. I reject most religious claims on the same basis. The claims and human experience don't line up. I side with human experience and reject the claims.
    Karmageddon - It's when, like, everybody is giving off these really bad vibes, and like, it makes that whole world explode, and that's like a real bummer.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    The only way to make sense of this is to tie it all together. How can I turn my unhappiness into happiness in a way that aids the starving children in Africa?

    ...So, you know, those children can then aid the less fortunate tortured children in North Korea.
    Brilliant idea!
    Karmageddon - It's when, like, everybody is giving off these really bad vibes, and like, it makes that whole world explode, and that's like a real bummer.

  6. #46
    Senior Member tkae.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    So people should grieve the loss of loved ones their entire lives and be miserable? That is more honorable than having a positive attitude in life and lifting people up? And moving on beyond sadness to productiveness?

    I hate the "whoa is me" crap people love to wager on themselves and using 9-11 to get your point across is disrespectful to the victims of 9-11. That's my pinyin.
    Your entire view of human suffering is disrespectful, so I reserve the right to use them as an example to counter your total apathy.

    Your entire method is just masking pain in order to let everyone around the person go on with their lives like it's all Candy Land. Newsflash: life sucks. Everyone's life sucks. We're all fragile creatures struggling against insane odds where a confrontation with our own mortality is around corner. It's a right to be miserable. A person who society says "should" be happy is just someone who has material comfort which is totally unrelated to emotional pain and existential threat. A fluffy couch won't stop cancer, a Mercedes Benz won't stop your wife from getting shot in a bank robbery.

    Beyond traumatic events, everybody has the right to have a shitty day. I do my best to always be smiling and to help make the days of people around me better, and even I have to take a day off sometimes.

    To answer your question, my entire point, unlike yours, isn't what people should or shouldn't do. They can be miserable the rest of their lives if that's how they feel. Or even if you're right and we can all just snap our fingers and be happy, you have no right to tell them what to do. They can be angry about a new flavor of potato chips if they want, and you can't tell them they're wrong for it.

    It's amazing to me how many people in this thread view themselves as the emotion police.

    A person's inner processes are their own fucking business. Have we gotten that interested in each other that not even our emotional lives and thoughts are off limits? We don't need reasons for why we feel or don't feel. And as far as the question of the thread is concerned, human suffering is unrelated to material wealth. It's not a math equation. +10 comfort from a nice car doesn't offset a -4 from their doctor telling them they have high cholesterol.

    DESPITE the fact they can go home in a cool car, they still have high cholesterol. Rich people suffer just like everyone else. In 2012, how is it still a question whether any human -- no matter their race, sexuality, or (for fuck's sake) economic status -- is as human as anybody else? We all blind, we all think, we all breathe, we all FEEL. Just as strongly as each other, give or take the variations of personality theory.
    "Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away." -Ekaku Hakuin
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  7. #47
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    So, um, has anyone mentioned clinical depression yet?... Has the thread gone to hell too much for me to do so?

    Tentative typing: ISFJ 6w5 or 9w1 (Sp/S[?]).

  8. #48
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Happy or unhappy is beside the point. However many people there may be who are worse (or better) off, we always have the right and often the responsibility to improve our lot. Often, by doing so, we improve the lot of those around us.

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I've always been confused when people say you have no right to be unhappy because others are suffering. Oh, others are suffering and starving... that reminds me to be happy?

    I think we are much more reactionary than we'd like to think. It feels better to assume we have unlimited free-will to control our lives and outcomes, but there is no proof of this assumption. When there is unhappiness, it seems more productive to look for the root causes and correct these. Is it a chemical imbalance? Psychological issue? Poor nutrition? Mind games have never worked for me. I can't fool myself into feeling something, and have found the problem solving approach to be much more efficient.
    We feel what we feel - it is generally counterproductive to try to control that. Our expression of our feelings is another matter, though. However unhappy we feel, we do not need to go through the day whining about our lot, whether there are others worse or better off than us. Yes, the practical approach of solving our actual problems is much more effective, and palatable to others.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #49
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    There are kids starving on your door step, being abused and killed too, there's no need to think that "war is elsewhere" and you're living in an oasis too.

    I dont think there's any need for guilt tripping but I think there's reasonable expectation to have a social conscience too, also without becoming dispirited or depressed its probably correct to have a reality check once in a while as to how much more happy it would be possible to be if the necessary adjustments and changes could be made to social structures in order to make it so, for your self.
    Unless those kids have a relationship with me, they really have no business in my conscience.
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  10. #50
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetani View Post
    Unless those kids have a relationship with me, they really have no business in my conscience.
    I can understand not being neurotic about strangers welfare but to be honest human empathy should provoke some response.

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