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  1. #111
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by disregard View Post
    It's like when you say it's hot or it's cold and someone is always within earshot to say, "I'm from Texas/Alaska/Pluto etc, THIS is NOT hot/cold!"

    That scenario, like the one in the OP, gets under my skin because it's usually a stranger or an acquaintance saying it, and they just want to preach.

    Preaching is so yuck.
    Yes. After awhile, it just becomes rather dismissive. It rarely ever is a productive thing to say.

  2. #112
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Well, I never claimed to have the right to be unhappy, but regardless of whether I have the right or not, I sometimes experience it. I don't see any need to punish myself for feeling unhappiness. After all, I have different priorities than those starving children in Africa, and I believe that feeling pity for them is sufficient. I don't see how my being unhappy detracts from the meaningfulness of their discomfort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I've always held the belief that to manage to be happy when others around you are not (and I mean this in a global sense) is an indication of something lacking in one's character.

    Also, I think questions of "rights" don't apply when it comes to internal states. No one can legislate for those. Even the US constitution only offers the right to the pursuit of happiness. If pursuing happiness is every person's right, then the fact that so many are denied that right is going to occasionally put a damper on your day. Unless you're entirely egocentric, that is.
    I agree with you here. I came from a community recently where one of the biggest problems was that people were completely egocentric, and formed up all these little cliques. They would pretend to be nice to your face, but in reality they were all hanging out in these tiny little chats enjoying watching others get excluded or feel lonely or miserable. And they would constantly backstab each other too. I seriously think there WAS something lacking in their character. They had no sense of justice and didn't really care about anyone except themselves.

    I was not well-liked a lot of the time because I was always concerned with treating people fairly, seeing that people were exposed/punished even if they were friends with someone popular, and just had a major issue with this general backstabbing/secretive/clique culture they had going on. Actually, I was well-liked enough that I could start internal debates among people on these issues, but it was dismissed as me "causing drama" by the naysayers a lot of the time, even when I had valid points.

    I also was appointed to, but stepped down from, a sort of status/honor position that was awarded based on votes of current members of that position, due to not liking the way people would always vote in their unqualified friends and feeling like it was corrupt. Also didn't like that random people kept begging and trying to bribe me for votes.

  3. #113
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I agree with you here. I came from a community recently where one of the biggest problems was that people were completely egocentric, and formed up all these little cliques. They would pretend to be nice to your face, but in reality they were all hanging out in these tiny little chats enjoying watching others get excluded or feel lonely or miserable. And they would constantly backstab each other too. I seriously think there WAS something lacking in their character. They had no sense of justice and didn't really care about anyone except themselves.
    http://www.narcissismepidemic.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #114
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincessButtercup View Post
    Apparently you are unfamiliar with how emotions work. Emotions are a response to our own thought process. Nothing more. Nothing less. That is why two people can go through the exact same experience and have completely different emotional responses to it. They think differently. You control your emotions by altering your thought process.
    Apparently YOU are. Emotions precede thoughts, in evolutionary terms as well as in human terms. Thoughts 'make sense' of emotions. Actually thoughts create meaning for emotional arousal, since all emotional arousal is identical in physiological terms.
    Go read a book, or something, instead of trying to patronise your betters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #115
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Apparently YOU are. Emotions precede thoughts, in evolutionary terms as well as in human terms. Thoughts 'make sense' of emotions. Actually thoughts create meaning for emotional arousal, since all emotional arousal is identical in physiological terms.
    Go read a book, or something, instead of trying to patronise your betters.

    So which are you saying comes first?
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  6. #116
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    So which are you saying comes first?
    It's not a simple formula. Thoughts can create emotional affects. Emotional affects prompt thoughts. Like most biological mechanisms, it's a feedback loop.

    In terms of the function of primitive emotions - like fear - designed to alert us to danger which might put our health and safety at risk, the emotion (or the arousal, at any rate) comes first. This enables us to act without thinking, instinctively.

    This is also the case with mirror neurons and the underlying substrate of empathy - we experience what is happening to another person as if it is happening to us, this creates sympathetic physiological arousal, which we can then reflect upon, cognitively.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #117
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    But for humans, in the beginning, there is always an object that the subject responds to. This object can be an animal, which then incites fear, or this object can be a belief that is learned from our crib.

    We learn how to feel about things. What we learn we necessarily believe. Our beliefs become our mental objects and how we respond to that becomes our subjective expression. We are more familiar with our subjective processes, be they feeling or thinking, because we 'use' them all the time, but it is really our underlying objective beliefs which are driving us in everything we do, think, and feel.
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  8. #118
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    1. You are conflating feeling and emotion.

    2. Objective beliefs do not drive us. We like to think we are more rational than we are. Beliefs are the stories we spin to explain our behaviour (and the behaviour of other objects) to ourselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #119
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    1. You are conflating feeling and emotion.
    It is unimportant here because in context to objective belief, they are subjugate.

    2. Objective beliefs do not drive us. We like to think we are more rational than we are. Beliefs are the stories we spin to explain our behaviour (and the behaviour of other objects) to ourselves.
    When you speak of rationality, I believe you are speaking of 'thinking' as a function opposite 'feeling', and I think both are subjective to our underlying beliefs of what we hold as true. So, in this context, thinking 'rationally' is really no different than feeling 'rationally.' We are as rational as we can be in response to what is deeply embedded within us.

    So when you say we like to think we are more rational than we are, it is really true in a sense because the subjective, more surface, expressions can lead us astray or in circles at times. We know, when we look at our outcomes versus others' outcomes, that something is not working out, or we are not being 'as rational as we'd like', but the reality is that we are being as rational as we can be with what we are working with. We simply cannot see those underlying deep-seated beliefs that is what is truly driving us. Only when we shift our perspectives and are able to see them (the ones causing us problems), and change them, will we have a more rational response to them; our thoughts and feelings will then change to reflect what we have come to believe.


    We could try out an example for fun, but I'm not thinking of any good ones at the moment...
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    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  10. #120
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    It is unimportant here because in context to objective belief, they are subjugate.
    That's your assertion, not fact.

    It is important in terms of what begets what.

    When you speak of rationality, I believe you are speaking of 'thinking' as a function opposite 'feeling',
    No, I'm not. Both are rational. Both are (can be) responses to emotional cues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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