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  1. #91
    Member Isis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by momental View Post
    And them having something would not make them happier?

    I know people don't like to admit it, but sometimes having more can make you happier. Not worrying is a strong relief and allows you to actually experience happiness.
    I guess it's all in how we each look at life.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    OK. But that wasn't my main point. My point is that faith is NOT a choice. If it were, I, for one, would choose it. Unfortunately, my mental powers are too acute and discriminating to afford me that luxury.
    And you accuse others of narcissism?

  3. #93
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    depends if i've signed any kind of contract with said starving African child. For example something about equal sharing of resources (u d have to define resources though, otherwise I can see monogamy becoming tricky)

    Apart from rights what gave the starving children's parents the idea that it was a perfect environment to raise a child (appart if some dramatic macro or micro economical and or geopolitical change happened within the first few years of conception in that region i mean)
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  4. #94
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Are you done?
    No, but you and your buddy clearly are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    I challenge that thinking as my mental powers are also quite acute and discriminating.
    Would you know if they weren't?
    I'm afraid my experience chimes with Hemmingway's: "Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know."
    What some strong thinkers sometimes neglect though is to listen to their HEARTS. They think if they can only see it and touch it- that is the only true logic that makes sense.
    First of all, you're mixing up empiricism with rationality - don't do that. General and special relativity were conceived by a "strong" thinker, after all.

    Secondly, if we don't listen to our hearts it's because we know they don't make sense - it's a common side-effect of strong thinking that feeling becomes impaired and faith becomes nigh on impossible. If God made me this way (demanding my faith but making that impossible for me by virtue of the configuration of my intellect) that would hardly be fair now, would it?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    :/ Well seeing as how I am American born, and more patriotic than some, I cannot see this as insulting.. but I get the feeling it's sort of intended to be that way. Correct me if I'm wrong.
    It's not a mindset that appeals to me, but we are dealing with a highly subjective area, so I can totally respect your right to hold attitudes that are alien to me since they impinge on no one else. Very often have I wished that the suffering of others had less of an impact on me. It actually makes a lot of sense, so I'm not going to criticise you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    depends if i've signed any kind of contract with said starving African child. For example something about equal sharing of resources (u d have to define resources though, otherwise I can see monogamy becoming tricky)

    Apart from rights what gave the starving children's parents the idea that it was a perfect environment to raise a child (appart if some dramatic macro or micro economical and or geopolitical change happened within the first few years of conception in that region i mean)
    I'm not sure that people in any part of the world are that rational that they plan every single conception with a sharp eye toward resource or distribution questions.

    This is one of the things I find interesting about unnatural creedos like objectivism taking hold, why would anyone who is programmed that way bother having children at all? Children are only drains upon resources and time to someone programmed that way.

  6. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    :/ Well seeing as how I am American born, and more patriotic than some, I cannot see this as insulting.. but I get the feeling it's sort of intended to be that way. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    I have too many ambitions, and too much to do, to weigh myself down with the burdens of the entire world. I help where I can, and I ensure I am cared for so that I am not one of the ones helping with that weight as much as possible. It isn't that I don't feel empathy or sympathy for people at all.. but I'm just not so emotionally driven by it all. I don't cry when I see a tsunami happen across the world. I didn't cry when the people I was at war with perished at the hands of that war while I survived. It hurts to see people suffering from genocide, starvation, war, natural disasters.. but I, personally, am not hurt, and so I drive on. I'd rather not get into religious thoughts on the issue as there are way too many easily offended atheists to discuss anything on that level.
    Ha! I agree with your last line although I seldom see opinions like that, on the other hand I'd say that you can feel bad for the victims of tsunamis or even terror attacks like 9/11 without being neurotic about it, becoming emotionally unstable, crying or despairing.

    I understand what you're saying about not wishing to become burdened by it, I dont think anyone should, and realistically those that do are often not those with the resources or sphere of influence to make much of a difference in any case (most charitable giving for instance in the UK is horizontal rather than vertical, there is no philanthropic giving from the greedy to the needy).

    The rush to express hard headed lack of sentiments about bad things happening elsewhere to strangers doesnt strike me as actually true in most cases or in tune with human nature, its not so deepseated or entrenched as its here for keeps either I believe.

  7. #97
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    this thread keeps making me think of an exchange in a book I read as a child between a girl and her mother... her mom had burned the toast and when her daughter didn't want to eat it she told her to think of all the starving people in china who would be happy to get the toast... the girl says that she would be happy to give the food to those people
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    This is part of getting the most impact from one's efforts. I suppose I am saying that no one benefits from my just sitting around feeling bad about the troubles of others. I have to get off my rear and act for any good to come of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah but accepting limitations, which is a good thing because it involves having a sense of perspective and not getting burnt out or neurotic or obsessive or just becoming a dull and one dimensional person, doesnt mean you should do nothing and not care.

    The necessity that your sphere of concern is greater than your real sphere of influence doesnt mean you have no influence. Quietism and stoicism I dont think are the best answers which confronting the short comings of the world or any particular age you're living in. It's like the story of the star fish washed up on the shore but I'll not bore you with that because everyone knows it, it was even lampooned in an Eddie Murphy movie I think.
    I think we're all in agreement here.

    Except that everyone knows the story of the star fish that wound up on the shore; I have to go look that one up.
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    this thread keeps making me think of an exchange in a book I read as a child between a girl and her mother... her mom had burned the toast and when her daughter didn't want to eat it she told her to think of all the starving people in china who would be happy to get the toast... the girl says that she would be happy to give the food to those people
    Awesome. When someone means "There are starving people in Africa" as "Shut up and be grateful, and eat your God damned toast", rather than as, say, a legitimate lesson, it deserves to be turned on its head in such a way.

    After all, the mom is the one exploiting starving people in Africa by using them to get her child to listen to her.

    Checkmate, mom; chckmate.

  9. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    I think we're all in agreement here.

    Except that everyone knows the story of the star fish that wound up on the shore; I have to go look that one up.

    Awesome. When someone means "There are starving people in Africa" as "Shut up and be grateful, and eat your God damned toast", rather than as, say, a legitimate lesson, it deserves to be turned on its head in such a way.

    After all, the mom is the one exploiting starving people in Africa by using them to get her child to listen to her.

    Checkmate, mom; chckmate.
    The starfish story is about a man coming to a beach upon which lots of starfish have been washed up and will die, a kid is running up and down the beach throwing individual starfish back in the water, the man says to the kid they will never be able to return all the starfish and some will die so what difference does it make, the kid answers that it makes a difference to "that one and this one and this one and this one" as they continue returning ones from the beach.

  10. #100
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    lol Privilege I did not come from, I can assure you.
    My perspective comes from FAITH in a higher being. In the belief that this earth is an illusion and the real life is in the hereafter. People that have turned against their creator get sad and feel sorry for themselves. I have seen people with nothing SMILE. THAT IS FAITH.

    Happiness is a choice. Attitude is a choice.
    The highlighted has been one of the main lines of "reasoning" used for millennia by those with power and privilege to encourage those with neither to be content with their lot. Those who rely on the creator to solve their problems are just as likely to become disappointed and disillusioned. It is their own efforts that are essential for any improvement; perhaps not sufficient, but always necessary. This is a productive attitude. Happiness is irrelevant, and will follow on when the right circumstances are in place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    I feel like this is a philosophical question because you imply that having things equates to happiness. I am saying happiness is a mindset, a spiritual place- a journey to your death because each day we are closer to it. You cannot take things with you.
    No, Momental's comment seemed more to be saying that happiness is related to having the chance to realize your dreams. Some people do dream of having wealth and material goods, but many others dream of education, independence, relationships and family, even simple safety. People in the most abject of situations are probably capable of feeling happiness, but the emotion of happiness can easily be overshadowed by other very real emotions like sadness, anxiety, grief, and fear. Trying to feel happy at these times denies the reality and validity of these other emotions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    My point is that faith is NOT a choice. If it were, I, for one, would choose it. Unfortunately, my mental powers are too acute and discriminating to afford me that luxury.

    You said happiness is a choice and used faith as support for that. If faith is not a choice then your argument is invalid.
    Yes - faith is not a choice. We can't make ourselves believe something; we either believe or we do not.

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Apart from rights what gave the starving children's parents the idea that it was a perfect environment to raise a child (appart if some dramatic macro or micro economical and or geopolitical change happened within the first few years of conception in that region i mean)
    No one. And no one gave them the means or mindset to prevent conception; no one gave the women the right to refuse their husbands; no one brought up the men to have the kind of restraint required for abstinence. In the end, once again the children suffer for the sins of their parents.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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