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  1. #11
    Member Isis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    I'm an 8 (not sure on wings) and when I read the description some time back I was like...wow. That's totally me. I can't even fathom life without contingency plans and back up plans and back ups for those plans. I just answered another post about control but I certainly have that 8 feeling about it. I won't be controlled but I will give control to people worthy of it. I don't have a lot of desire to control others but I will if the need arises.
    I can see that in 8s! I like to hang around 8s because I know they have their $hit together more than me!
    So you will relinquish control to someone who will be responsible with it. I will relinquish control to someone I respect morally. There goes our Fi and Te again...

  2. #12
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    Hi- wow, loved your post!! Thank you so much!
    I also admire people like you who really get the enneagram because I have always struggled with it. I walked around thinking I was 2 and then realized I was totally wrong.
    Actually- this post made me dig up old notes and finally found them! This is what I tested and sounds like me:
    7w6, 4w5, 9w1
    I'm definitely a heavy Te but extremely people oriented, overly enthusiastic about everything.
    I feel like I want to re-read your post over and over - was almost like a psychic reading- love it!
    The Fi/ Te description makes perfect sense!!! I am insanely idealist and fighting for causes and standing firm. uggh I feel like I must annoy the crap out of people. Either that or they wish they could be as impassioned about something- I don't know.
    I'm an Sx/SO.
    And I would be like a wild animal if someone tried to cage me. If I were truly trapped- it would manifest to a full blown panic attack.
    - 7w6 works (in which case, you would clearly be 7w6sw8w7 like me as opposed to a 7w6sw6w5 who is more the loveable bundle-of-nerves goofball)
    - I could see 4w5, but I see 3w4 more. you seem more driven and resilient than a 4w5 fixer. 4w5 fixers are much more withdrawn with intense emotional volatility and tend to wallow in their feelings of "ugly duckling syndrome"
    - definitely not seeing 9w1. 9s are peace loving and avoid conflict at all cost. you sound more like you're naturally assertive and have no problem dealing out "righteous" punishment when you deem it necessary.
    - 749 is the gentle spirit tritype, and you don't strike me as gentle
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  3. #13
    Member Isis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    - 7w6 works (in which case, you would clearly be 7w6sw8w7 like me as opposed to a 7w6sw6w5 who is more the loveable bundle-of-nerves goofball)
    - I could see 4w5, but I see 3w4 more. you seem more driven and resilient than a 4w5 fixer. 4w5 fixers are much more withdrawn with intense emotional volatility and tend to wallow in their feelings of "ugly duckling syndrome"
    - definitely not seeing 9w1. 9s are peace loving and avoid conflict at all cost. you sound more like you're naturally assertive and have no problem dealing out "righteous" punishment when you deem it necessary.
    - 749 is the gentle spirit tritype, and you don't strike me as gentle
    Hah!
    Can you help me figure it out once and for all? I'm liking where you're coming from, sir!!
    When I was younger- I totally cared what people thought- but now in my 40s- I DO NOT! So I do believe my eneagram has evolved.
    It's hard to say exactly what I would be. I am gentle / motherly / compassionate. But I am fiercely against injustice at all costs and I don't care who knows it. No- not afraid to voice my opinions and I do voice them. I'm also careful how I voice them- when- how often- to who etc. So I'm not just vomiting out my beliefs. I try to be strategic and use logic (and emotion) and okay- sometimes a little guilt trip to get my points across.

    I'm charitable and not materialistic. I'm spiritual.
    So now of course- I'm totally confused. At least we both agree on the 7 hahaha
    thanks again!!

  4. #14
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    Hah!
    Can you help me figure it out once and for all? I'm liking where you're coming from, sir!!
    When I was younger- I totally cared what people thought- but now in my 40s- I DO NOT! So I do believe my eneagram has evolved.
    It's hard to say exactly what I would be. I am gentle / motherly / compassionate. But I am fiercely against injustice at all costs and I don't care who knows it. No- not afraid to voice my opinions and I do voice them. I'm also careful how I voice them- when- how often- to who etc. So I'm not just vomiting out my beliefs. I try to be strategic and use logic (and emotion) and okay- sometimes a little guilt trip to get my points across.
    I'm charitable and not materialistic. I'm spiritual.
    So now of course- I'm totally confused. At least we both agree on the 7 hahaha
    thanks again!!
    you are sounding more and more like a 1 fixed 7w6, in particular 7w6sw8w7. you're probably a bit confused at this point
    Disclaimer: subwing is a rather controversial theory among enneagram experts, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. that said, I tend to support it due to observing clear differences in people of the same type based on the strength of their wing and noticing people who seem to have influence from both wings.
    - sw stands for sub wing.
    - a type can either have a strong wing or more balanced wings, so within each of the 18 types (9 types, two wings for each type) there are two more subtypes
    - to find the subwing, go two to the right or two to the left of the main type
    - in the case of 7w6
    1) 7w6sw6w5 is a 7w6 with a strong 6 wing. these are your typical entertainers, lovable comedian types and are more noticeably nervous and energetic. they tend to be more conflict avoidant and prone to over think things.

    examples: Conan O'Brien, Jim Carey, Robin Williams, Andy Samberg, Steve Irkle, Michael J. Fox, Mike Myers, Alan Carr, Jack Black

    7w6sw8w7 is a 7w6 who has more balanced wings, ie, 6 is the dominant wing, but some qualities of type 8 are also present. the 7w6 is more expansive, assertive and outwardly adventurous than the 7w6sw6w5, though they are still prone to more frequent nervousness than a 7w8 and tend to be somewhat more analytical and less impulsive. frequently, the 7w6sw8w7 has a mischievous, fox-like side and often falls into the role of trickster. attempts to control this subtype can result vengeful retaliation, but this subtype overall is friendly and accepting.

    examples: Antonio Banderas, Brad Pitt, Peter Pan, Captain Jack Sparrow, Todd (The Fox and the Hound), Loki, Dennis the Menace
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  5. #15
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    @skylights
    7s are often just as independence seeking as 8s, especially Sp dom 7s. 7s have big energy and require a lot of space and even more options to do what they want. trying to trap a 7 is like trying to trap wild animal that will fly into a rage and tooth and claw you until it escapes
    Makes sense, thanks for the clarification. Surprising to me how strong, almost with violent undertones, the need to escape is. I feel it too, from time to time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    Thanks for this!!
    No- I do not identify with 8 really at all. I think the ENFP and tritype of 4w5 makes me very individualistic and seeing others as individuals and making authenticity one of my very top values in terms of importance to me. So me being my authentic self means I cannot function with someone trying to control me. I really think an 8's view of being controlled and someone like me is a totally different dynamic- a great discussion though! I love this and would love 7s, 8s, 4s to weigh in!

    You see the world in terms of systems and have plans and contingency plans. (I have no plans. And what are contingencies? haha) Are you an INTJ? It fascinates me really how differently we can each look at the world.
    Actually I am an ENFP too, of all things!

    Also fascinating that our differences can manifest in similar language. I am sx/so also - hate the feeling of being caged, too, and will also fight tooth and nail to claw my way free.

  6. #16
    Member Isis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    you are sounding more and more like a 1 fixed 7w6, in particular 7w6sw8w7. you're probably a bit confused at this point
    Disclaimer: subwing is a rather controversial theory among enneagram experts, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. that said, I tend to support it due to observing clear differences in people of the same type based on the strength of their wing and noticing people who seem to have influence from both wings.
    - sw stands for sub wing.
    - a type can either have a strong wing or more balanced wings, so within each of the 18 types (9 types, two wings for each type) there are two more subtypes
    - to find the subwing, go two to the right or two to the left of the main type
    - in the case of 7w6
    1) 7w6sw6w5 is a 7w6 with a strong 6 wing. these are your typical entertainers, lovable comedian types and are more noticeably nervous and energetic. they tend to be more conflict avoidant and prone to over think things.

    examples: Conan O'Brien, Jim Carey, Robin Williams, Andy Samberg, Steve Irkle, Michael J. Fox, Mike Myers, Alan Carr, Jack Black

    7w6sw8w7 is a 7w6 who has more balanced wings, ie, 6 is the dominant wing, but some qualities of type 8 are also present. the 7w6 is more expansive, assertive and outwardly adventurous than the 7w6sw6w5, though they are still prone to more frequent nervousness than a 7w8 and tend to be somewhat more analytical and less impulsive. frequently, the 7w6sw8w7 has a mischievous, fox-like side and often falls into the role of trickster. attempts to control this subtype can result vengeful retaliation, but this subtype overall is friendly and accepting.

    examples: Antonio Banderas, Brad Pitt, Peter Pan, Captain Jack Sparrow, Todd (The Fox and the Hound), Loki, Dennis the Menace
    wow- I never heard of sub-wings. Only tritype. Very interesting!

  7. #17
    Member Isis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Makes sense, thanks for the clarification. Surprising to me how strong, almost with violent undertones, the need to escape is. I feel it too, from time to time.



    Actually I am an ENFP too, of all things!

    Also fascinating that our differences can manifest in similar language. I am sx/so also - hate the feeling of being caged, too, and will also fight tooth and nail to claw my way free.
    And here I thought you were an NT for a minute!
    lol

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    I guess you can say you would be deprived of freedom- I guess I think of the word deprived as "feeling deprived" or almost feeling sorry for yourself. I guess for me- that is where I'm seeing the difference between injustice (being more affiliated with the principal of it all) and deprivation (feeling like you are missing something and it's not fair.)
    Okay, if we're not mincing words as I did ()--definitely justice for me, then. I believe that it's just and right for us to be in control of ourselves and our destinies to the extent possible.

  9. #19
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isis View Post
    I guess you can say you would be deprived of freedom- I guess I think of the word deprived as "feeling deprived" or almost feeling sorry for yourself. I guess for me- that is where I'm seeing the difference between injustice (being more affiliated with the principal of it all) and deprivation (feeling like you are missing something and it's not fair.)
    I'm not really understanding why you're choosing to draw this distinction. Independence is both, and neither. If it wasn't a negative experience to lose independence ("deprivation"), nobody would care about whether it's an ability everyone deserves ("injustice"). But independence is also a valuable thing intrinsically, regardless of whether you're actually harmfully affected by its loss or not, and regardless of whether you think it's a human right.

    I also have never met anyone who admitted to wanting to be controlled, or not minding it, regardless of type.
    -end of thread-

  10. #20
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I also have never met anyone who admitted to wanting to be controlled, or not minding it, regardless of type.
    I agree; however just because people say they do not want something (or want something) does not mean they actually behave that way. Some people certainly seem to give it up willingly and are often unhappy when given independence.

    It's also a bit of a measurement or tradeoff issue. Are independence and security on the same axis? I'll gladly give up a certain amount of independence to be secure.

    As you say, if you define independence as an intrinsically good thing, then it is of course good. Even so I would say that the marginal value of each "unit" of independence decreases and can be traded for other things (namely security, but this is true whether it is a political, relationship or physical aspect). I'd also contend that it is inherently negative at the extremes, much the way choice is. I'd point to social code of behavior being very wrapped up in cause-effect that limits independence; allowing unlimited independence (or freedom of action) shows a very negative outcome for all, including those with that freedom. Of course, that depends on the interchangeability of freedom and independence, etc.

    (Not so much a disagreement, just ramblings.)

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