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[Typoz]

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[/DG/]

I typically have my hands in my pants pockets or my sweater pockets and I know I don't come off as arrogant, nor am I actually arrogant (except for maybe on the Internet).

 

[LEGERdeMAIN]

Short version: How do you see people with their hands in their pockets (pants/jeans/etc. pockets, not the sweater/jacket/etc. pockets)? What is your initial thought about them? Assuming they have a neutral stance, neutral facial expression, etc..

meek, introverted, lost in thought, has something valuable in pocket and feels the need to keep hand in to "protect" valuable item(s), has personal preference to have two hands in pocket rather than one or none, self-conscious about hands. I'm sure I could come up with more, enjoys playing pocket pong.

Long version: Recently I've been to a family member's workplace. It's a facility where they do data-entry - basically processing what's on paper to the computer. I wanted to take a look at the old tech that they are throwing out (386s, etc.). Since I'm looking for a job, today he has informed me that his workplace is hiring for something else than data-entry. When we conversed about the position, he's told me that his coworkers perceived me as very arrogant and not caring what others think. The interesting thing is that I didn't speak to any of the coworkers for more than 2 words, "How are you doing?", "Okay." for the most part. All I did was walked around with having my hands in my pockets (I was extra bored because to get to the old parts, I had to go through the "say hi to everyone" nonsense of my family member...), no facial expressions except fake happy face when they ask me how I am (hell, half of them don't even know my name!). He's also said that I was perceived as such when I was sitting still with my head down at a funeral (had my reasons to not say "it's a waste of time," they paid off ). I was sitting just like anyone else, some of them were looking around, and I know that my head was down during the "sitting at the casket" process (is it called mourning in English?), as I don't remember his co-workers.

Since he likes to complain and exaggerate things (or even make them up) about his family members, my theory is that it is not, what he highlighted - hands in my pockets. He put the "you had your hands in your pockets" as something very influential and meaningful, something that made them think so. So I've started to wonder, how exactly do people perceive people with hands in their pockets? Usually I don't do that, only when I'm as bored as I was then or when I'm cold...

Extra points: A story at least remotely related to this one.

I've been told I'm arrogant because I am, sometimes, arrogant, never for putting my hands in my pocket. Once I was a kid and my grandmother told me to keep my hands out of my pockets because it made me look like I was unhappy. I was sitting outside a fitting room for about 30 minutes waiting for her to try on clothes and the chair was terribly uncomfortable - plastic, no arm rests - so I kept my hands in my pockets because I had nothing to fiddle with and I was tired of sitting in an uncomfortable plastic chair with no arm rests with my hands in my lap or hanging down like an ape. You shouldn't keep your hands in your pockets at family gatherings, it makes you seem unwelcoming. I wouldn't perceive it as arrogance though.

 

[Stanton Moore]

Keeps hands warm. It rains a lot in Seattle.

 

[RaptorWizard]

I would have thought only heavy Se users would care to even notice such rubbish as who has their hands in their pockets or who is wearing what and pretty much a whole other random bunch of retarded observations.

 

[RaptorWizard]

Why not others? I know that ISTJs and ISFJs pay a lot of attention to that kind of thing, as it's considered social norms.

Good point! Maybe my theory was a little off base. Still though I think there is something rather sensorish about noticing these kinds of things but maybe I'm wrong again as I could be underestimating the observation powers of some intuitives.

 

[uumlau]

I would say that your being perceived as arrogant had nothing to do with your hands in your pockets, and everything to do with your overall bearing. Being quiet and reserved can come across as very intimidating, or it can come across as very unfriendly. It depends on a lot of factors, especially because it lets other people project their hopes/fears on you.

 

[garbage]

Never thought about it before. Initial thoughts:

That particular body language may communicate that one is somewhat closed-off. And one reason for being closed-off is that one thinks he's better than other people. Thus, "hands in pockets" may very well loosely translate to "arrogance" to some, whether or not it's intentional or accurate. It's just one factor of many that people would take in, though, and people can't often pinpoint all of the reasons why they get the impressions that they do.

On the flipside, those who are arrogant or otherwise closed-off might find themselves performing gestures like that one without knowing that they're doing so.

 

[LEGERdeMAIN]

Well, in this situation, there's no way I could've appeared as anything except reserved.

Family gatherings - why does it make you unwelcoming? I mean if you shake hands and all. I don't do it, but it wouldn't appear to me if I was the guest.



Why not others? I know that ISTJs and ISFJs pay a lot of attention to that kind of thing, as it's considered social norms.

Reserved can easily be perceived as unwelcoming, unhappy, uninterested. At family gatherings it makes you seems like you'll be reluctant to give and receive physical affection that is common in many families around the world. Like...hugging and shaking hands, etc. It's okay not to hug and shake hands. In my own family, it's pretty much the norm to shake hands or hug, even people I met once when I was 5.... keeping my hands in my pockets would seem unwelcoming so I usually keep one hand at my side and another on a coffee mug, glass of wine, beer bottle or something else, like a cell phone. Keeping something in your hand with one hand in your pocket is less unwelcoming and also, you should enjoy your family gatherings by being actively involved, someday they'll all be dead and so will you and so, wow, you're right, it doesn't really matter at all because we're just dust inthe wind, dust in the wind, all we are is duuuuust in the wind, etc. Live fast, live hard, live the way you want, and then - nirvana.

 

[Ism]

Yesterday I wore a pair of shorts where the pockets were big enough to actually fit my hands!

It was awesome and I walked around everywhere with my hands in my pocket.

I think the vibes people get, though, depend on the individual. It can be casual, relaxed, awkward, cool, etc. Mostly, though, I don't think people care enough to think about it.

 

[LEGERdeMAIN]

Maybe not with noticing but with perceiving. Sensors usually like social norms, intuitives usually don't.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I've heard all kinds of typology wizards and prophets and grandmasters say that sensors veer away from social norms. Also, not really sure how you can make blanket statements like that with absolutely no facts, experience or logic to back it up. I'm not mad, just skeptical of people whose opinions are made up of assumptions and stereotypes and assumptions about stereotypes.

 

[Il Morto Che Parla]

I often go for the very slow, almost imperceptibly lopsided, left-hand in pocket, stroll (in order to not say swagger), assessing the environment.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Interesting posts.

I think that it can look that way to fearful people - intimidating, and they can project their hatred, insecurities, fears, etc., on that person as they do not know the real reason behind it. And in this case, there was no other cues.

There were no other cues that you are aware of. I don't think you should brush it off as projection, although one or two people may have made a comment that was then generally accepted by the majority. Most people probably didn't care enough to really notice.

Hands in pockets is especially an "older generation" no-no. My Dad would say, "What do you think you're doing, walking around with your hands in your pockets when there's work to be done. Get over here and help out." It has a distanced, "laissez-faire" feel to it, especially if you have your hands in pants-pockets with your shoulders scrunched up or hunched over. Like you're not interested or not engaged and don't give a hoot. It also signals insecurity and a personal unease.

I suspect your overall body language of the moment led to the assessment. The way to correct it is to stand erect, make eye contact, and generally hold yourself with a more confident bearing next time.

 

[LEGERdeMAIN]

Are you high?

For this precise reason I use words like "usually" and "mostly." Usually they repel such comments.

I don't get "high". I'm perfect.

It's a good practice to use "usually" and "sometimes", but you imply that sensors "usually" go with the social norm without citing one of the many double-blind studies presented in a one of the many peer-reviewed journals that would back up your claim..... I'm just kidding, there aren't any credible studies in any way related to what self-identifying sensors do. Typology isn't science

 

[/DG/]

Why not others? I know that ISTJs and ISFJs pay a lot of attention to that kind of thing, as it's considered social norms.

Both my ISTJ dad and I don't notice that sort of thing. He is more concerned with overall behavior than insignificant things like this. I couldn't care less about either of these things.

Good point! Maybe my theory was a little off base. Still though I think there is something rather sensorish about noticing these kinds of things but maybe I'm wrong again as I could be underestimating the observation powers of some intuitives.

I hate this stereotype of sensors being hyper-aware of their environment. I'm perhaps one of the least observant sensors you'll meet. We can be absent-minded too.

 

[UniqueMixture]

I worked at a job where you just do not do that. I was constantly being told to "walk with a purpose" and such. I think because of this I learned to walk head high, chest out, hands OUT of pockets. I have special sympathy for people who receive this criticism and so I try not to do it myself to others, but I must admit those bodily expressions are typically seen as signs of self-confidence and it feels good to be interpreted that way so I continue the behavior. I don't think of it as inherently being correlated, but for me it is a way of communicating how I see myself to people who do see it that way.

 

[PeaceBaby]

My overall body language was neutral, I've already mentioned it ...

Since you don't see yourself the way others see you, someone is wrong.

Either way, you're the one left with the prospect of doing something to try to alter that perception.

 

[/DG/]

I have noticed that around these forums. Maybe it's a cultural thing?

It's just one of those common misconceptions. Saying all ISTP's are risk takers is another example.

Overall, sensors draw a lot from it, especially as they get older. More/less confined, repressed cultures may have more influence over such things, and it may be a part of the "overall behavior" if that's the case.

I disagree, especially the bolded part.

In the case of my father, it rarely these little observational things that go toward the "overall behavior." They are often much bigger. For example, he criticizes Romney for running for president because: "He's rich so why should he bother?" (I know it's ridiculous, but I'm trying to show you that it's not really based on small observations.) In fact, he is quite absent-minded as well.

 

[/DG/]

What I meant was that behavior, like doing what is polite and what is considered "okay" to do (or say) in certain situations may become the overall behavior.

Oh okay. I understand what you mean. However, I would argue that everyone does this to a degree, not just sensors. It seems that Fe types would tend to do this more often, though.

 

[PeaceBaby]

I'm not going to alter it - I don't care how they see me. Even if I worked there I wouldn't care...

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My type is a mystery.

Young INTP enneagram 4.