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  1. #11
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typoz View Post
    Well, in this situation, there's no way I could've appeared as anything except reserved.

    Family gatherings - why does it make you unwelcoming? I mean if you shake hands and all. I don't do it, but it wouldn't appear to me if I was the guest.



    Why not others? I know that ISTJs and ISFJs pay a lot of attention to that kind of thing, as it's considered social norms.
    Reserved can easily be perceived as unwelcoming, unhappy, uninterested. At family gatherings it makes you seems like you'll be reluctant to give and receive physical affection that is common in many families around the world. Like...hugging and shaking hands, etc. It's okay not to hug and shake hands. In my own family, it's pretty much the norm to shake hands or hug, even people I met once when I was 5.... keeping my hands in my pockets would seem unwelcoming so I usually keep one hand at my side and another on a coffee mug, glass of wine, beer bottle or something else, like a cell phone. Keeping something in your hand with one hand in your pocket is less unwelcoming and also, you should enjoy your family gatherings by being actively involved, someday they'll all be dead and so will you and so, wow, you're right, it doesn't really matter at all because we're just dust inthe wind, dust in the wind, all we are is duuuuust in the wind, etc. Live fast, live hard, live the way you want, and then - nirvana.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  2. #12
    Senior Member Ism's Avatar
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    Yesterday I wore a pair of shorts where the pockets were big enough to actually fit my hands!

    It was awesome and I walked around everywhere with my hands in my pocket.

    I think the vibes people get, though, depend on the individual. It can be casual, relaxed, awkward, cool, etc. Mostly, though, I don't think people care enough to think about it.

  3. #13
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typoz View Post
    Maybe not with noticing but with perceiving. Sensors usually like social norms, intuitives usually don't.
    I'm not saying you're wrong, but I've heard all kinds of typology wizards and prophets and grandmasters say that sensors veer away from social norms. Also, not really sure how you can make blanket statements like that with absolutely no facts, experience or logic to back it up. I'm not mad, just skeptical of people whose opinions are made up of assumptions and stereotypes and assumptions about stereotypes.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I would say that your being perceived as arrogant had nothing to do with your hands in your pockets, and everything to do with your overall bearing. Being quiet and reserved can come across as very intimidating, or it can come across as very unfriendly. It depends on a lot of factors, especially because it lets other people project their hopes/fears on you.
    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Never thought about it before. Initial thoughts:

    That particular body language may communicate that one is somewhat closed-off. And one reason for being closed-off is that one thinks he's better than other people. Thus, "hands in pockets" may very well loosely translate to "arrogance" to some, whether or not it's intentional or accurate. It's just one factor of many that people would take in, though, and people can't often pinpoint all of the reasons why they get the impressions that they do.

    On the flipside, those who are arrogant or otherwise closed-off might find themselves performing gestures like that one without knowing that they're doing so.
    Interesting posts.

    I think that it can look that way to fearful people - intimidating, and they can project their hatred, insecurities, fears, etc., on that person as they do not know the real reason behind it. And in this case, there was no other cues.

  5. #15
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    I often go for the very slow, almost imperceptibly lopsided, left-hand in pocket, stroll (in order to not say swagger), assessing the environment.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    Reserved can easily be perceived as unwelcoming, unhappy, uninterested. At family gatherings it makes you seems like you'll be reluctant to give and receive physical affection that is common in many families around the world. Like...hugging and shaking hands, etc. It's okay not to hug and shake hands. In my own family, it's pretty much the norm to shake hands or hug, even people I met once when I was 5.... keeping my hands in my pockets would seem unwelcoming so I usually keep one hand at my side and another on a coffee mug, glass of wine, beer bottle or something else, like a cell phone. Keeping something in your hand with one hand in your pocket is less unwelcoming and also, you should enjoy your family gatherings by being actively involved, someday they'll all be dead and so will you and so, wow, you're right, it doesn't really matter at all because we're just dust inthe wind, dust in the wind, all we are is duuuuust in the wind, etc. Live fast, live hard, live the way you want, and then - nirvana.
    Are you high?

    My family has never hugged anyone. I literally do not remember anyone hugging anyone, under any circumstances. I haven't hugged anyone either, but I don't want to either. It think it's an odd way of saying hi - a simple hello is sufficient for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ism View Post
    Yesterday I wore a pair of shorts where the pockets were big enough to actually fit my hands!

    It was awesome and I walked around everywhere with my hands in my pocket.

    I think the vibes people get, though, depend on the individual. It can be casual, relaxed, awkward, cool, etc. Mostly, though, I don't think people care enough to think about it.
    Again, applying this to the long version: As I understand, they were asked about me as I may be a candidate to the job position, so I don't think that they'd thought about it until then. Now, when I think about it, it makes sense that it wasn't my behavior, or the highlighted "hands in pockets" as he said, it was his stories about his family members, including me. I don't think that they would remember a 2 minutes visit a couple months ago, and moreover, be capable of thinking about it in a way that would allow them to make a conclusion like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    I'm not saying you're wrong, but I've heard all kinds of typology wizards and prophets and grandmasters say that sensors veer away from social norms. Also, not really sure how you can make blanket statements like that with absolutely no facts, experience or logic to back it up. I'm not mad, just skeptical of people whose opinions are made up of assumptions and stereotypes and assumptions about stereotypes.
    For this precise reason I use words like "usually" and "mostly." Usually they repel such comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    I often go for the very slow, almost imperceptibly lopsided, left-hand in pocket, stroll (in order to not say swagger), assessing the environment.
    I am unsure what you mean.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typoz View Post
    Interesting posts.

    I think that it can look that way to fearful people - intimidating, and they can project their hatred, insecurities, fears, etc., on that person as they do not know the real reason behind it. And in this case, there was no other cues.
    There were no other cues that you are aware of. I don't think you should brush it off as projection, although one or two people may have made a comment that was then generally accepted by the majority. Most people probably didn't care enough to really notice.

    Hands in pockets is especially an "older generation" no-no. My Dad would say, "What do you think you're doing, walking around with your hands in your pockets when there's work to be done. Get over here and help out." It has a distanced, "laissez-faire" feel to it, especially if you have your hands in pants-pockets with your shoulders scrunched up or hunched over. Like you're not interested or not engaged and don't give a hoot. It also signals insecurity and a personal unease.

    I suspect your overall body language of the moment led to the assessment. The way to correct it is to stand erect, make eye contact, and generally hold yourself with a more confident bearing next time.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  8. #18
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typoz View Post
    Are you high?

    For this precise reason I use words like "usually" and "mostly." Usually they repel such comments.
    I don't get "high". I'm perfect.

    It's a good practice to use "usually" and "sometimes", but you imply that sensors "usually" go with the social norm without citing one of the many double-blind studies presented in a one of the many peer-reviewed journals that would back up your claim..... I'm just kidding, there aren't any credible studies in any way related to what self-identifying sensors do. Typology isn't science
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typoz View Post
    Why not others? I know that ISTJs and ISFJs pay a lot of attention to that kind of thing, as it's considered social norms.
    Both my ISTJ dad and I don't notice that sort of thing. He is more concerned with overall behavior than insignificant things like this. I couldn't care less about either of these things.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Good point! Maybe my theory was a little off base. Still though I think there is something rather sensorish about noticing these kinds of things but maybe I'm wrong again as I could be underestimating the observation powers of some intuitives.
    I hate this stereotype of sensors being hyper-aware of their environment. I'm perhaps one of the least observant sensors you'll meet. We can be absent-minded too.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    There were no other cues that you are aware of. I don't think you should brush it off as projection, although one or two people may have made a comment that was then generally accepted by the majority. Most people probably didn't care enough to really notice.

    Hands in pockets is especially an "older generation" no-no. My Dad would say, "What do you think you're doing, walking around with your hands in your pockets when there's work to be done. Get over here and help out." It has a distanced, "laissez-faire" feel to it, especially if you have your hands in pants-pockets with your shoulders scrunched up or hunched over. Like you're not interested or not engaged and don't give a hoot.

    I suspect your overall body language of the moment led to the assessment. The way to correct it is to stand erect, make eye contact, and generally hold yourself with a more confident bearing next time.
    Since I was bored, I was very aware of what I'm doing. And after him talking to me today, I've re-run my actions. No other cues. In fact, I even helped them carry the heavy old monitors (probably over 10kg) up the stairs (2 stories up) so I could get to the actual PC boxes faster. Which, people should've seen, as a nice and polite gesture. Carried maybe two of them, the basement was full of old tech. Got myself some old parts. Wanted to take a whole PC but they wouldn't let me - said they have to be logged. The people who work there work in different rooms (or sometimes 2 of them in a room) and as far as I know, they don't meet to talk to each other.

    Interestingly enough, he's told me that I should have had my shoulders scrunched up, head down, hands hanging down.

    My overall body language was neutral, I've already mentioned it. And as I've mentioned in this post, I'm aware of what I was doing at that moment. As for appearing confident, that's how I usually appear. However that's what people usually see as arrogant, especially if I answer a question that they think they are smart for knowing the answer to it or comment on "but they all are stupid" kind of statements that people who don't know anything about the subject make just to talk.

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    Both my ISTJ dad and I don't notice that sort of thing. He is more concerned with overall behavior than insignificant things like this. I couldn't care less about either of these things.

    I hate this stereotype of sensors being hyper-aware of their environment. I'm perhaps one of the least observant sensors you'll meet. We can be absent-minded too.
    I have noticed that around these forums. Maybe it's a cultural thing? Overall, sensors draw a lot from it, especially as they get older. More/less confined, repressed cultures may have more influence over such things, and it may be a part of the "overall behavior" if that's the case.

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