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  1. #41
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Exactly right, hence use of the term "intelligence".
    But there is no strict definition of intelligence. It is one of those words which is bandied about but means very little. Do you not measure some people as intelligent, others as smart and others as cunning? Can you be smart without being intelligent? Can you be cunning without being intelligent? Surely all these things are also classically ascribed to intelligence but aren't the same word. What does intelligence mean? Does it include non-academic ability?

    Have you really not met someone who could do maths until it came out of their ears, history until they could recite the exact details of the 100 year war including perfect quotes, learn science in half the time it took you... and yet fail completely to learn how to make tea or pack a suitcase without some basic error?

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I'm not ruling anything out, just not giving them equal weight. When creating an RPG character, does one always distribute all the points in all areas equally? Hell no, because some skills are more valuable than others. And when it comes to homo sapiens, B-K brings up the rear.
    Right let's use that analogy.

    If I give strength higher priority then I'm looking to build a fighter or someone who uses strength. This runs true for every characteristic and skill in the game. I've played with high and low in all of them except CON, for obvious reasons in our games.


    So there is no weighting involved other than my preference and the design I'm hoping to achieve. There is no ultimate stat. INT is not king and neither is any other stat. No amount of dexterity will make you better at walkin around in full plate, bar some limited circumstances, and no amount of strength will help you hit someone with a spell, unless it happens to be a spell placed on a heavy rock or something.

    So to bring the analogy back to the test itself, if you are applying weighting to the various categories as the person who's set up the test then the test is based on biases. It's then essential to ensure that those biases are universal (objective) and not specific (subjective).
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #42
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Ok for those who don't know INT is the abbreviation given to intelligence in D&D. The magnificent seven refers to the theory of there being seven types of intelligence.

    With that out of the way what I'm getting at is what words or concepts do you associate with intelligence?

    Are they biased towards one personality type or another?

    Do we (the few.. the mighty...etc) think that the seven types of intelligence are right (in our own estimations, ie not objectively) and if not then what needs changing?
    The Earth and Moon move about their orbits yes.
    And the Wernie bloke had to take that into account.
    Big deal.

    It requires intelligence all right. A kind of exquisitely boring, garden variety of intelligence. Who cares. I know I don't.

    The Moon is a dead rock hanging about. Yawn.

    It is the artist who is truly intelligent. The innovative architect, the dancer, the figure skater, the painter.

    She has the thing under command. It is she who uses her head.

    Never cared much for Wernie. A tedious chap. Very tedious.

  3. #43
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    The Earth and Moon move about their orbits yes.
    And the Wernie bloke had to take that into account.
    Big deal.

    It requires intelligence all right. A kind of exquisitely boring, garden variety of intelligence. Who cares. I know I don't.

    The Moon is a dead rock hanging about. Yawn.

    It is the artist who is truly intelligent. The innovative architect, the dancer, the figure skater, the painter.

    She has the thing under command. It is she who uses her head.

    Never cared much for Wernie. A tedious chap. Very tedious.
    Now come along you can't rate intelligence based on how individual it is. Besides artists command intelligence in such fashion based on their own interior world where as the scientist, it's the exterior world which is studied.

    I think you are right though in valuing intelligence other than that which applies to mathematics and such. However even within such disciplines you'd be hard pushed to rule out the other intelligences.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #44
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Now come along you can't rate intelligence based on how individual it is. Besides artists command intelligence in such fashion based on their own interior world where as the scientist, it's the exterior world which is studied.

    I think you are right though in valuing intelligence other than that which applies to mathematics and such. However even within such disciplines you'd be hard pushed to rule out the other intelligences.
    Define the word intelligence.

    According to IQ tests intelligence is about finding the obvious thing.
    Those who are the quickest in the languid routine score best.

    Intelligence is not about finding the torpid thing.

    How did life begin?
    What is it that makes inanimate animate?
    What is the indifference?

    Intelligence.

  5. #45
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    You and I are the subject.

    Intelligence resides in the object.

  6. #46
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    You and I are the subject.

    Intelligence resides in the object.
    The object is where you use the intelligence but that's not where it resides surely? Otherwise intelligence would not be attributed to people but to things. That is only done in cases where those who get to decide aren't what my father would call "switched on".
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #47
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Define the word intelligence.

    According to IQ tests intelligence is about finding the obvious thing.
    Those who are the quickest in the languid routine score best.

    Intelligence is not about finding the torpid thing.

    How did life begin?
    What is it that makes inanimate animate?
    What is the indifference?

    Intelligence.
    Intelligence to me is a measurement of the capability of the brain. As in athletics, which tests the capabilities of the body, there are many disciplines.

    Capability does not equal result though so you can still have massive potential but no realised result.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #48
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Intelligence to me is a measurement of the capability of the brain. As in athletics, which tests the capabilities of the body, there are many disciplines.

    Capability does not equal result though so you can still have massive potential but no realised result.
    No, Xander.

    Intelligence does not measure an organ of a body.

    A carpenter's tool is not intelligent. It is an inanimate object.

    Intelligence does not measure anything. Nor is it measured.

    The measure is in the subject. Intelligence otherhand is in the object.

  9. #49
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    No, Xander.

    Intelligence does not measure an organ of a body.

    A carpenter's tool is not intelligent. It is an inanimate object.

    Intelligence does not measure anything. Nor is it measured.

    The measure is in the subject. Intelligence otherhand is in the object.
    As of now I am serving you with an official rit of lostness.

    Too many tangents. I am confused.

    What do you define as intelligence?
    How is it in the object?
    Why can intelligence not be measured? (esp in the light that your introvertedness is in fact measured by the MBTI and that's a facet of the same locale as your intellect.)
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #50
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    How did the inanimate became animate?

    This is the question.

    The intelligence of the mathematics behind the reproduction principle in genetics does not reside in Mendel and Crick.

    The existence of the object is irrespective of the subject.

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