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  1. #21
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Did you know the only reason they put flight controls on the early spacecraft is because the pilots objected? They probably could've put coma patients on the moon.
    Pilots objected for good reason. Crews may be the least durable component of spacecraft, but have provided irreplaceable perspective and remediation. The mission summary of Gemini 8 should be all that is necessary for you to understand why your second statement isn't correct.

  2. #22
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    Pilots objected for good reason. Crews may be the least durable component of spacecraft, but have provided irreplaceable perspective and remediation. The mission summary of Gemini 8 should be all that is necessary for you to understand why your second statement isn't correct.
    Nah he's probably right. Coma patients wouldn't mind waiting for the RAC to get to them
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by indigo2020 View Post
    They are different. One is not "better" than the other. Can you bat a .400 or juggle (or whatever you thing is inferiour to your superior intelligence) and if not, why? I mean, if it's so easy and all...
    Of course one is better than the other. If you train a dog to run certain (American) football receiving patterns and to catch the football - and it does it faster and easier than a person - is the dog more intelligent than a wide receiver?

    Any "intelligence" that is superior in animals is not really an "intelligence" in my book.

  4. #24
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Of course one is better than the other. If you train a dog to run certain (American) football receiving patterns and to catch the football - and it does it faster and easier than a person - is the dog more intelligent than a wide receiver?
    Well no not specifically as the circumstances have change so too has the usage of intelligence. If the dog can run faster because it moves on four limbs and not two and has ( what's the word for legs that bend the opposite way? ) those thingies then it's not using it's brain to overcome the challenge. Try getting a dog to time all these manoeuvres in a chaotic in game situation and you may see the human coming out on top.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Any "intelligence" that is superior in animals is not really an "intelligence" in my book.
    So this species is the ultimate in terms of brain power in all fields is it? That's a nice rounded off view of things. Under such assumptions what is spatial awareness? Is it a mental faculty? If so then is it not linked to intelligence? is it a type or facet of intelligence? Is there not an animal with greater spatial awareness than some of those driver's you saw out on the road this week? I'd think so.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Well no not specifically as the circumstances have change so too has the usage of intelligence. If the dog can run faster because it moves on four limbs and not two and has ( what's the word for legs that bend the opposite way? ) those thingies then it's not using it's brain to overcome the challenge.
    Hey I'm not the one calling it "intelligence". The fact that many bodily movements completely bypass conscious thinking is another strike against calling it an "intelligence".

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    So this species is the ultimate in terms of brain power in all fields is it? That's a nice rounded off view of things. Under such assumptions what is spatial awareness? Is it a mental faculty? If so then is it not linked to intelligence? is it a type or facet of intelligence? Is there not an animal with greater spatial awareness than some of those driver's you saw out on the road this week? I'd think so.
    There is a difference between usage and ability. Just cause those drivers aren't using it doesn't mean they can't.

    The brain does a great many things, some things animal brains are better at than humans. I am unwilling to label every output from the brain "intelligence".

  6. #26
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gen View Post
    Sorry, I agree with MacGuffin. It seems to me that a bunch of touchy-feely psychologists got together at a World Self Esteem Promotion Convention and tried to think of enough strengths so that everyone would have some kind of high intelligence. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, there's no reason to pander to egos and call them 'intelligences'.
    Me too...

    Seems people have decided that there is too much import given to being intelligent but the traditional sense and so someone decided to redefine it to incorporate those who may not be very academic, no idea why we can't just leave it alone and find something else to tall them...

    Describing the college football jock as highly intelligent (what was it Bodily-Kinesthetic?) sond odd when he is stood next to the physics nerd.... (said a one time physic nerd... DAMN YOU PERONSAL BIAS')

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    The brain does a great many things, some things animal brains are better at than humans. I am unwilling to label every output from the brain "intelligence".
    Totally agree... Come on Xander you remember some of things that have comeout of mine??

  7. #27
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    If there is no such thing as BK intelligence then it makes no sense why some people are well coordinated and such. It's just not reasonable.

    Some people are clumsy... this much is true. They appear dumb and unintelligent and yet I know one guy who'd beat most here at mental arithmetic and yet can't cross a room without knocking into something (that's a slight exaggeration).

    Another thing is that there is scientific research which concludes that playing certain computer games increases your visual acuity which is the capability of the brain to pick up things from the visual input from your eyes. This is a function of the brain and yet is not consciously controlled. You could call it something else but generally that's just trying to reserve the word intelligence for some pedestal of a belief system which is irrelevant.

    What surprises me is that 3 intuitives say that subconscious thinking is not intelligence. With that kind of thinking then all intuitives would score much lower on intelligence tests due to those intuitive leaps coming from your subconscious.

    However I'm not going to argue over whether it's felt that the word intelligence can be used in a certain manner. That's a pointless debate.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    What surprises me is that 3 intuitives say that subconscious thinking is not intelligence. With that kind of thinking then all intuitives would score much lower on intelligence tests due to those intuitive leaps coming from your subconscious.

    However I'm not going to argue over whether it's felt that the word intelligence can be used in a certain manner. That's a pointless debate.
    You are surprised because we don't consider every mental process equivalent.

    Someone may understand a complex subject intuitively, and another may have faster reflexes when an object is thrown at their head... but I don't think both subconscious outputs are equal.

  9. #29
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    You are surprised because we don't consider every mental process equivalent.

    Someone may understand a complex subject intuitively, and another may have faster reflexes when an object is thrown at their head... but I don't think both subconscious outputs are equal.
    Their equality is irrelevant without context. You may intuitively understand that the knife being thrown at you head will hurt quite a bit but I believe that it'd be the reflexes which would be of paramount importance at that point in time. This context factor sets all valuing of the various intelligences, or facets of mental capability if you'd prefer, irrelevant.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Their equality is irrelevant without context. You may intuitively understand that the knife being thrown at you head will hurt quite a bit but I believe that it'd be the reflexes which would be of paramount importance at that point in time. This context factor sets all valuing of the various intelligences, or facets of mental capability if you'd prefer, irrelevant.
    Context doesn't matter. Reflexes are far more important in terms of survival. I doubt there is a person on these boards that hasn't avoided serious injury or death by using their reflexes. It's still not intelligence though.

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