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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Yes. I somehow doubt most people are considering this, though.
    Well, that sounds like an assumption. Maybe they can't articulate it, but they still could be taking it similarly on a more primal, wordless level.

    I think also from my observations that many guys view things differently -- suffering in pursuit of a goal or in conflict to overcome obstacles (a la Jason Bourne), well, the focus is not on feelings and and such, it's about being strong and persistent and competent to achieve your ends successfully. The pain is just one more realistic obstacle, rather than something to try to avoid.

    This is faintly reminiscent of the debate over boys being competive and running around pretending to shoot guns when they are 4-5 years old, and how different people believe it means different things.

    Also in the sense of enlightenment, suffering refers more to existential suffering.
    Well, that might be the approach in more articulate/philosophical venues, but a lot of what has been described and a lot of the things experience by people are much more tangible.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, that sounds like an assumption. Maybe they can't articulate it, but they still could be taking it similarly on a more primal, wordless level.

    I think also from my observations that many guys view things differently -- suffering in pursuit of a goal or in conflict to overcome obstacles (a la Jason Bourne), well, the focus is not on feelings and and such, it's about being strong and persistent and competent to achieve your ends successfully. The pain is just one more realistic obstacle, rather than something to try to avoid.

    This is faintly reminiscent of the debate over boys being competive and running around pretending to shoot guns when they are 4-5 years old, and how different people believe it means different things.
    Indeed, and well said. Such is the difference between the visceral and the cerebral.

    Well, that might be the approach in more articulate/philosophical venues, but a lot of what has been described and a lot of the things experience by people are much more tangible.
    Right. Existential suffering is tangible, too. So in a sense you were quite correct. It includes things like growing old, getting sick, even existing in a world where bad things happen. But the goal in enlightenment is to overcome these things. Not to eliminate them, because that's impossible. But it's also not to use them to improve yourself as a thing unto itself. It seeks to transcend rather than build upon.

  3. #13
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    What's wrong with Bourne?

    I suffered through Taken. I wouldn't call that entertainment though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #14
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    What's wrong with Bourne?
    Nothing. I enjoyed the films.

    I suffered through Taken. I wouldn't call that entertainment though.
    Yeah the best thing about that movie was watching Liam Neeson be a badass. That was about it.

  5. #15
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    So why do you ask?

    Are you trying to find out why *you* watched them?

    Re: zombie movies, etc., I don't watch them. Too effin silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #16
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Who says it's the suffering itself that is entertaining?

    To me, suffering -> spritual enlightenment and is a natural part of the growth process of human beings (just as adversity tends to encourage growth in any kind of living creature, if the adversity isn't strong enough to destroy it ... just as assuredly as we build muscle strength by straining the muscle tissues within reasonable limits and having it reweave into a stronger configuration).

    So why are you interpreting all of these things as being obsessed with suffering as the focal point? Suffering is something that occurs during challenges and growth.

    (This also allows us the ability to distinguish between suffering that seems like it could produce positive strength and change, vs shows that seems to focus purely on suffering without any positive outcome.)
    ^This is brilliant.

    It's about accepting reality loving it in spite of how trying it can be at times and finding a way to change it for the better.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  7. #17
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    So why do you ask?

    Are you trying to find out why *you* watched them?

    Re: zombie movies, etc., I don't watch them. Too effin silly.
    Asking an absurd question on purpose to demonstrate the absurdity of said question and its ilk.

  8. #18
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Riiiiiight. :confused:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #19
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Riiiiiight. :confused:
    It's simple. I was looking for people's innate responses to my fallacious equivocation.

    If I had framed what I was actually doing, this thread would have gone entirely differently, and I wouldn't get what I'm actually looking for. I'd get 'right answer' responses instead.

  10. #20
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Still drawing a from me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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