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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    Are you saying that the mindset of a person who commits mass murder is more understandable than the mindset of a person who commits suicide ("stupid people do stupid things")? Or that the deaths of the various mass murder victims are less tragic than the death of a person who commits suicide?

    I'm not disagreeing; I'm just not sure exactly where you're putting the focus when you talk about understanding and accepting "mass murders."

    [Edit: It's a minor point, but I bumped up against it when I started playing with the idea.]
    I don't know, but yes. I think that's what I think...or was thinking...someone distantly close to me committed suicide and that news made me stop, as opposed to the Aurora incident where I hardly gave it a thought.

    Maybe it's just that he was closer to me...but, admittedly, had he been one of the Aurora victims, I'm not sure I'd have thought much of it (or him, rather).

    I guess I'm saying that with suicide, the emphasis is on you, and in other tragedies the emphasis is on the tragedy. Killing yourself, you are the tragedy...and it's sad that people think of themselves like that...indicative of a bigger problem than whatever caused the Aurora situation.

    It's like at least the Aurora guy went out fighting...he didn't give up hope, he became impatient with hope...and decided he'd go out and do something...something stupid, yes...but something.

    Suicide, it's like the guy didn't have hope...not even enough to have hope that he would have hope...and then, nothingness.

    If he couldn't find hope, why should I be able to?
    And if I can't, do I follow his path or the path of the Aurora guy?

    Tempered, of course, to my situation...which doesn't involve life or death...not until I'm old and grey.

    I can't decide who I'd choose to emulate more/less...who was more/less noble/cowardly...who should be considered more/less...because, I think at the end of the day the mentalities are simililar, just the execution different.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by xisnotx View Post
    I don't know, but yes. I think that's what I think...or was thinking...someone distantly close to me committed suicide and that news made me stop, as opposed to the Aurora incident where I hardly gave it a thought.

    Maybe it's just that he was closer to me...but, admittedly, had he been one of the Aurora victims, I'm not sure I'd have thought much of it (or him, rather).

    I guess I'm saying that with suicide, the emphasis is on you, and in other tragedies the emphasis is on the tragedy. Killing yourself, you are the tragedy...and it's sad that people think of themselves like that...indicative of a bigger problem than whatever caused the Aurora situation.

    It's like at least the Aurora guy went out fighting...he didn't give up hope, he became impatient with hope...and decided he'd go out and do something...something stupid, yes...but something.

    Suicide, it's like the guy didn't have hope...not even enough to have hope that he would have hope...and then, nothingness.

    If he couldn't find hope, why should I be able to?
    And if I can't, do I follow his path or the path of the Aurora guy?

    Tempered, of course, to my situation...which doesn't involve life or death...not until I'm old and grey.

    I can't decide who I'd choose to emulate more/less...who was more/less noble/cowardly...who should be considered more/less...because, I think at the end of the day the mentalities are simililar, just the execution different.
    Thanks for the response.

    Okay, yeah, you’re comparing different ways of dying. In which case I totally agree. A victim of a mass murder or even a victim of a random car accident was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, whereas the person committing suicide has that whole mental thing going on.

    And then you're extrapolating the suicide to the issue of whether anyone might make the decision that life isn't worth living: To fight on, or not to fight on.

    Just to pursue the other idea:

    In a way, I think it might be more germaine to take a person driven to commit suicide and compare him to a person driven to commit some heinous crime. Both of their heads are in a weird space.

    But maybe that’s just me. Or maybe it’s because of the ambiguous nature of suicide: When one commits suicide, one is both murderer and murder victim at the same time.

    Edit: Sorry to hear about your friend or acquaintance or whatever, by the way. One way or the other, it's always sad news when it shows up close to home.

  3. #13
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    Oh yeah, and to answer the OP:

    I think it's just proximity. If one of the victims in the Aurora killings was a member of your family, you would wonder what that family member experienced in their last moments, whether they suffered, etc. You would fret more about that family member than about a random suicide in the news.

    In other words, I think the tragic effect (mourning, etc.) is mostly about how close to home it strikes, and whether you know the person well enough to put yourself into their shoes (or the shoes of the people around them), even tentatively.

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