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View Poll Results: Which do you reject the most?

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  • Someone forcing me into a physical experience.

    17 73.91%
  • Someone forcing me into a change of idea.

    6 26.09%
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  1. #11
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Either I'm not understanding correctly or everyone else has failed to properly interpret what "force me into a change of ideas" means. I mean, first of all it would make most sense to assume that the options in the poll are supposed to be of comparable severity, right? Otherwise the question would make as much sense as asking "would you rather be given a rose, or would you rather lick scum off of the ground?"
    I'm making the best of it.. Not sure what the questions really mean either. I figured that I already mentally entertain a lot as it is.. if anything, to test plausibility or usefulness. Plus, I answered "Physical" simply because in my experience that's what has actually put me in a rage in the past. Nothing comes to mind for "Mental".

  2. #12
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I'm making the best of it.. Not sure what the questions really mean either. I figured that I already mentally entertain a lot as it is.. if anything, to test plausibility or usefulness. Plus, I answered "Physical" simply because in my experience that's what has actually put me in a rage in the past. Nothing comes to mind for "Mental".
    Brainwashing?
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  3. #13
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Brainwashing?
    Not sure what would cause it.

    I think the only thing that mentally tortured me was..... me. I overdosed on shrooms. Long story short, I ended up in a psychotic state, was arrested, hospitalized.. the whole works. I made it through though. And now I'd say I'm the "Rocky" of mental torture. lol.. I don't know how to get into it, but it might take a lot to screw me over. It'd take less to make me anxious physically.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Either I'm not understanding correctly or everyone else has failed to properly interpret what "force me into a change of ideas" means. I mean, first of all it would make most sense to assume that the options in the poll are supposed to be of comparable severity, right? Otherwise the question would make as much sense as asking "would you rather be given a rose, or would you rather lick scum off of the ground?"

    So, assuming that the question is not stupid, that rules out any notions that "forcing into a physical experience" means "get your ass beat" (or the like) and "forcing into a change of ideas" means something like someone shrilly yelling "you will read Hegel and you will like it! Now!" The latter, in physical terms, might be more equivalent to "getting your shoulder nudged in a rude fashion."

    Now I'm going to assume also that the question is referring to the most severe forms of each of these, because otherwise the question would be boring and lead to more wishy-washy answers. That's a little less solid of an assumption, though, so if the OP wants to clarify on that point that would be great. Anyway, so the most severe forms of "forcing you into a physical experience that you don't want to do" would involve bodily harm, up to and including death, right? So that would mean that to maintain equivalence between the two poll options, "forcing you into an idea you do not wish to entertain" would involve mental harm, up to and including psychic death or identity erasure, right?

    If I'm right, then, and I'm not misunderstanding things dreadfully, then I think this should be made clear in the OP so as to produce better results and discussion.

    /bored and restless
    I took the question at face value (including the clarification in the OP). It sounded like an equivalent of the bold statement above.

    I say this because, some people really strongly object to being asked ("forced" in their vernacular) to consider ideas in classrooms and such.

    For instance, some people really dislike the idea of relativity. (For evidence of this see: http://www.conservapedia.com/Counter..._to_Relativity)

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
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  5. #15
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    For instance, some people really dislike the idea of relativity. (For evidence of this see: http://www.conservapedia.com/Counter..._to_Relativity)
    This could be a Fi thing (not that all Fi types would be this way, but...). I just can't see any Ti types that closed to ideas, on principle. They'd pick things apart, but not just push it away..like it'd give them cooties or something. This is a value thing.

  6. #16
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Brainwashing?
    To me that crosses a physical boundary so it removes the distinction between the two.

    The mind/body dichotomy is kind of erased when someone can directly mess with your mind.

  7. #17
    Ginkgo
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    Isn't physical discomfort essentially a psychological one? Nobody likes to entertain the idea of having their limbs chopped off, nor do they enjoy the torment that missing limbs bring.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Isn't physical discomfort essentially a psychological one? Nobody likes to entertain the idea of having their limbs chopped off, nor do they enjoy the torment that missing limbs bring.
    A physical discomfort usually implies a psychological one as well. But they are not the same. The idea of getting limbs chopped off is different from actually getting them chopped off.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  9. #19
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I didn't even think about pain per se, but being forced into undesirable action or held hostage somehow (my examples in my original post suffice). I just saw the two as different kinds of power struggle, and what would be more aggravating.

  10. #20
    right on the left wing Philosorapteuse's Avatar
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    I hate people trying to force me to think things. Or do things, at that, but especially think things. Ideas and suggestions have to take time to trickle through all my filters before they get their clearance. Sanity-checking and decontamination are mandatory before they're allowed to be built into my world framework. It's not that I'm not prepared to change my mind - I absolutely am - but there is a process and it takes time. Anyone trying to brute-force their way past that process gets a mental brick to the face.
    "A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices." --William James

    I'd be a card-carrying sensotard, but I can't find the goddamn card.

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