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  1. #71
    Senior Member Rex's Avatar
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    I don`t think its right to think that you lose your sister with downs, more like getting your sister eventually without. People take abortion without any good reason all the time. DS is a reason more.

    Its like saying you can`t treat your rabies because that would alter your mind back to normal..

    Once again a dodgy example.. yay.
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  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Also, the parents quite likely had the baby after the recommended age. I don't assume my reaction is always justified, I'm just being honest. I have some spartan values that I don't expect many people to relate to.

    Yes. That used to be no-brainer in the past. It would actually be a improvement from that, since we don't have to wait until the fetus develops a consciousness anymore.

    I assume you mean narcissistic. And if by narcissistic you mean someone who actually has the disorder, the answer is definitely yes. I used to have a boss with that disorder and I'm confident that the world would become a better place without that kind of people. In fact, NPD is much more harmful to society than DS.

    Point is people with DS are basically a dead weight to the society. They are born to be treated with pity or contempt for the rest of their lives. We could solve that.


    A. First, thanks for your INTPish detection of my spelling error..

    B. In fact, when I referred to lack of having medical tech to assess the health of the fetus.... i was referring to my own mother who got pergnant when she was 22 years old and both her and my father were in great physical shape;hence your argument does not stand......

    C. Although I am trying "hard" to maintain my sense of objectivity, regarding the bolded areas, I challenge you to spend real quality time with a person wtith Ds ( I wont allow you to be around mine ) and then let me know if you still feel the same...

    D. If you read all my posts in this thread, you will see that I mentioned about the positive impact that my sister had on my Outlook towards life.. Another suggestion, if you have not already, you may want to read Ginko's post...

    I know INTPs' tendeny to be logical, yet there is a major difference between "cruelty", and "rationality" and your stand seems to be of the first one.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatsNorway View Post
    I don`t think its right to think that you lose your sister with downs, more like getting your sister eventually without. People take abortion without any good reason all the time. DS is a reason more.

    Its like saying you can`t treat your rabies because that would alter your mind back to normal..

    Once again a dodgy example.. yay.
    http://open.spotify.com/track/0em18R0T5Phr6yv3bBP7cD
    I am not discussing the pros and cons of abortion, I just simply mentioned the lack of medical tech to assess the health of the fetus about 30 years ago... Nevethless , its a good post

  4. #74
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darya View Post
    D. If you read all my posts in this thread, you will see that I mentioned about the positive impact that my sister had on my Outlook towards life.. Another suggestion, if you have not already, you may want to read Ginko's post...
    I'm different from you. Like RedH mentioned, for some of us the intellectual connection is quite important.

    I know INTPs' tendeny to be logical, yet there is a major difference between "cruelty", and "rationality" and your stand seems to be of the first one.
    Maybe I'm both. But abortion is not murder. It's like destroying a seed, but a bit more controversial.
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  5. #75
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darya View Post
    Ummm.... thats a great point, having a role of care taker of someone who does not appear to be a person with" special needs" seem to be more challenging. I

    I tend to have an issue with the term "damged" after all, are not we all damaged somewhow, maybe emotionally or spritualily,...

    I believe that when life cuicumstances place you in the posotions to be around people with "special needs",( especially if you are related by blood) its likely that you develop more sympothy towards people w other specialy needs....
    My grandmother is damaged. There is no way around that. She was a perfectly healthy, functioning and intelligent woman and the disease wrecked havoc on her brain. It is definitely, visibly damaged with swiss-cheese like holes where healthy cells once were. It is an appropriate term for her situation.

    I don't think I have as much sympathy as most people do, because.. I think it isn't my place to judge them that much. I feel like.. They obviously wanted the child, and that lifestyle.. so I don't really feel so bad for them in that regard. I really don't feel so bad for the child either, because thats the life the parents chose for them. Its a double edged sword, because I don't really care (so it allows me to befriend disabled easily, and their caregivers, and work in that environment without issue) but I also don't .. well.. care.. I don't give the caregivers that "Aww you poor thing.." attitude. I'm sure some would really desire that occasionally, but if I were a caregiver I'd abandon those desires. I save my sympathy for people who didn't ask for those sort of situations, like my Aunt. Since you really can't tell who asked for it and who didn't.. I sort of don't sympathize much at all.

    Anyways.. I'd argue DS is better than Autism, if the DS is mild to moderate and the autism moderate to severe. Autism kids are a bitch to deal with no matter what, they were the most challenging to deal with at work. Deaf was easy, dumb easier, blind easiest, DS the funnest, and retardation of various sorts fair enough of a challenge depending on the severity.. Autism was difficult no matter what the level stated seemed to be.
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  6. #76
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    I work with adults with developmental disabilities. That said, no, I do not think they look funny, as in the haha sense. Generally, they do look different from the mainstream. I'm not sure why that is a question, though? It's a very normal process in diagnosing those with disabilities.

    They can look different, but why is that in question?

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Mildly annoyed. They should have been aborted. I don't think they look funny.
    Why do you think they should have been aborted?

  8. #78
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tewt View Post
    Why do you think they should have been aborted?
    We're the only species that try to save life that's not self-sustaining.
    We could be exchanging a useless person for a person that's gonna find the cure for the HIV.
    The world is already overpopulated. We need to allocate resources wisely.
    I don't expect anyone to agree with me. I was supposed to be a spartan. Something went wrong.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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  9. #79
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    And Darya, if you just wanted us to make you feel good about your situation, you should've told us before. If I knew you had a sister with DS, I'd have ignored the thread.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  10. #80
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post

    Anyways.. I'd argue DS is better than Autism, if the DS is mild to moderate and the autism moderate to severe. Autism kids are a bitch to deal with no matter what, they were the most challenging to deal with at work. Deaf was easy, dumb easier, blind easiest, DS the funnest, and retardation of various sorts fair enough of a challenge depending on the severity.. Autism was difficult no matter what the level stated seemed to be.
    I'd say this is largely to do with the individual teaching, their skillset and understanding.
    Each has their own challenges in a world where they are not catered to on a whole sense.

    I do not think that children/babies/seeds (whatever your preferred definition) should be aborted purely on the basis that they have downs syndrome. However i do believe it is the parents right as long as careful deliberation is used and it's not just an alternative to birth control.

    I have experience with lots of individuals with many of those mentioned above and close personal experience of one particular individual with downs syndrome who lived next door to my father.
    Yes it is difficult for the family but i do not think, in hindsight, they would have chosen not to have him. Unlike several posters here i try not to judge on their basis of what intellect is.
    I actually believe we have something to learn from people with down syndrome and thsi thread is a fantastic example of what that is.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

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