Do you think people with Down Syndrome look funny?

[prplchknz]

I don't have experience, but i wouldn't laugh i don't think. though sometimes i stare at normal people so really me staring out you cuz you have ds does not translate into omg you freak of nature die die die die die

 

[Darya]

Yeah, it's interesting. It's startling when I understand someone more by how they say things than what is said, bypassing language barriers. However, it's also startling to see a person maimed by autism or some other sort of debilitation when I'm suddenly forced to see our common trait; we're just trying to get by. It's even more humbling than watching a fully functioning bacteria move or a wild animal operate on pure instinct.

Of course many people re-calibrate their behaviors for social or otherwise practical reasons, but re-calibration follows from weirdness, and "weirdness" follows from ignorance in every case. It leads me to believe that people believe they are individualized when they are not. Not that we ought to conform for our similarities, but maybe that we can entertain the thought of being so self-aware that we can function according to the individual and the group, as John Nash was depicted saying in A Beautiful Mind in reference to The Nash Equilibrium.

Eat mah salad

Very well said. Thanks for your comment:hi:

 

[kyuuei]

Im sure people get shocked and scared of the unknown and don't want to be politically incorrect or accidentally rude or crude when they come across this sort of thing. A lot of subsitute teachers declined to help with special needs sections of the school--which is where I made all of my money.

Usually though, at least with mild downs syndrome, they're cooler to hang out with than some normal people are. I'm not going to say I have a soft spot for genetically deficient or different people.. I just really don't think much on the subject. If they're cool enough to hang out with, I hang out with them. If they're beyond normal human interaction, I either humor them the same way I humor children or I empathize and take some consideration for the people caring for them.

I've found it's even harder to care for someone who doesn't immediately 'look' damaged. My grandmother has Alzheimers, and you wouldn't know at first glance..we've frequently been the receipients of accusing glares and judgement from strangers in restaurants and shops for having to be firm with my grandmother about things like not eating food that can kill her.

 

[Randomnity]

No, I don't think they are funny looking, in the "haha" sense. They look different from other people in a clear pattern, but I wouldn't call that funny looking. Sort of like race, or very short people.

First, there was no chance or a medical technology existed for the expecting mothers( especial;y 30 yrs ago) to know that are pergnant with someone with DS,... Also, can you honestly say that we have the right to do that??

You didn't ask me specifically, but yes. And technology these days can usually detect DS quite early in pregnancy (within reasonable abortion guidelines), although some people don't have the desire for or the access to these tests.

If the answer is Yes, what if there was a technology that would enable the expecting parents to know whether or not they were having a child who will grow up to be a narcassitst,... would you then say they should also abort their child????


BTW I am in no ways equatting people with DS with narcassists since they are lovely and kind..

DS is a disability associated with health problems and presents many obstacles for the individual and his/her caregivers - narcissism is not really an accurate comparison. Dwarfism or deafness or even autism would be a better comparison, since some people (afflicted or not) see it as a disability and others (afflicted or not) see it as a different but perfectly fine way of being. Although I'd put DS further on the "disability" scale than any of those three (other than maybe severe autism), since it affects cognitive processes and prevents independence.

 

[Red Herring]

Redherring wrote:
... despite all my parent's efforts to the contrary and although I could and probably would (about the role of intellect in people's lifes, what makes us human, subjective and objective aspects of quality of life, my own subjective values, the pros and cons of those standards, what I would do if I had a child with a mental disability, what I would do and how guilty I would feel if it turned out I couldn't emotionally connect to them enough because of the lacking mental connection, etc.) So yes, they can trigger uncomfortable thoughts and feelings.
****************

So can you make a mental connection with an intelligent person who despite his/her intelligence chooses to be lazy coach potato with no dreams, aspriation and motivation, using parents' money and others' to survive, ...while intellectualizing and rationalizing his laziness... ?? love to hear your response.

Sure, probably. Why shouldn't I?

That does not mean that I have to condone their every action or choice. I have friends with different values and different lifestyles from my own.

 

[Darya]

Sure, probably. Why shouldn't I?

That does not mean that I have to condone their every action or choice. I have friends with different values and different lifestyles from my own.

Although I have befriended people from different cultures, race, sexual oriention,.... I can not imagine to be able to develop deep mental connection with someone who has distinctively different value system than mine..( i.e prostitue, a theif, or some one who has no shame in taking advantage of others... ( i am not suggesting I have no flaws)

Wouldnt you say that our mental functioning or mentallity to some extent create our personality, life choices and our behavior twords others??

 

[Red Herring]

Wooooa...we moved on from a slob without ambition to criminals now? That would probably not be my social circle.

Anyway, different types of people have different priorities and while I feel most at home with people of a similar social class and educational background, etc, politics or religion don't really matter even though I love to debate these issues. I don't have to agree with you to enjoy your company as long as you are mentally stimulating. That's what I was referring to.

It doesn't surprise me though that values and life choices play a more important role for an INFJ than for an INTP. Part of this forum's purpose is to help understand and accept these differences.

 

[Darya]

Im sure people get shocked and scared of the unknown and don't want to be politically incorrect or accidentally rude or crude when they come across this sort of thing. A lot of subsitute teachers declined to help with special needs sections of the school--which is where I made all of my money.

Usually though, at least with mild downs syndrome, they're cooler to hang out with than some normal people are. I'm not going to say I have a soft spot for genetically deficient or different people.. I just really don't think much on the subject. If they're cool enough to hang out with, I hang out with them. If they're beyond normal human interaction, I either humor them the same way I humor children or I empathize and take some consideration for the people caring for them.

I've found it's even harder to care for someone who doesn't immediately 'look' damaged. My grandmother has Alzheimers, and you wouldn't know at first glance..we've frequently been the receipients of accusing glares and judgement from strangers in restaurants and shops for having to be firm with my grandmother about things like not eating food that can kill her.

Ummm.... thats a great point, having a role of care taker of someone who does not appear to be a person with" special needs" seem to be more challenging. I

I tend to have an issue with the term "damged" after all, are not we all damaged somewhow, maybe emotionally or spritualily,...

I believe that when life cuicumstances place you in the posotions to be around people with "special needs",( especially if you are related by blood) its likely that you develop more sympothy towards people w other specialy needs....

 

[A window to the soul]

So I was wondering ,how do you guys ( honestly) react when you see a person with Down Syndrome ? (i.e on media, in person,..etc)??

I'm respectful.

 

[Rasofy]

First, there was no chance or a medical technology existed for the expecting mothers( especial;y 30 yrs ago) to know that are pergnant with someone with DS,...

Also, the parents quite likely had the baby after the recommended age. I don't assume my reaction is always justified, I'm just being honest. I have some spartan values that I don't expect many people to relate to.

Also, can you honestly say that we have the right to do that??

Yes. That used to be no-brainer in the past. It would actually be a improvement from that, since we don't have to wait until the fetus develops a consciousness anymore.

If the answer is Yes, what if there was a technology that would enable the expecting parents to know whether or not they were having a child who will grow up to be a narcassitst,... would you then say they should also abort their child????

I assume you mean narcissistic. And if by narcissistic you mean someone who actually has the disorder, the answer is definitely yes. I used to have a boss with that disorder and I'm confident that the world would become a better place without that kind of people. In fact, NPD is much more harmful to society than DS.

BTW I am in no ways equatting people with DS with narcassists since they are lovely and kind..

Point is people with DS are basically a dead weight to the society. They are born to be treated with pity or contempt for the rest of their lives. We could solve that.

 

[Rex]

I don`t think its right to think that you lose your sister with downs, more like getting your sister eventually without. People take abortion without any good reason all the time. DS is a reason more.

Its like saying you can`t treat your rabies because that would alter your mind back to normal..

Once again a dodgy example.. yay.
http://open.spotify.com/track/0em18R0T5Phr6yv3bBP7cD

 

[Darya]

:

Also, the parents quite likely had the baby after the recommended age. I don't assume my reaction is always justified, I'm just being honest. I have some spartan values that I don't expect many people to relate to.

Yes. That used to be no-brainer in the past. It would actually be a improvement from that, since we don't have to wait until the fetus develops a consciousness anymore.

I assume you mean narcissistic. And if by narcissistic you mean someone who actually has the disorder, the answer is definitely yes. I used to have a boss with that disorder and I'm confident that the world would become a better place without that kind of people. In fact, NPD is much more harmful to society than DS.

Point is people with DS are basically a dead weight to the society. They are born to be treated with pity or contempt for the rest of their lives. We could solve that.

A. First, thanks for your INTPish detection of my spelling error..

B. In fact, when I referred to lack of having medical tech to assess the health of the fetus.... i was referring to my own mother who got pergnant when she was 22 years old and both her and my father were in great physical shape;hence your argument does not stand......

C. Although I am trying "hard" to maintain my sense of objectivity, regarding the bolded areas, I challenge you to spend real quality time with a person wtith Ds ( I wont allow you to be around mine ) and then let me know if you still feel the same...

D. If you read all my posts in this thread, you will see that I mentioned about the positive impact that my sister had on my Outlook towards life.. Another suggestion, if you have not already, you may want to read Ginko's post...

I know INTPs' tendeny to be logical, yet there is a major difference between "cruelty", and "rationality" and your stand seems to be of the first one.

 

[Darya]

I don`t think its right to think that you lose your sister with downs, more like getting your sister eventually without. People take abortion without any good reason all the time. DS is a reason more.

Its like saying you can`t treat your rabies because that would alter your mind back to normal..

Once again a dodgy example.. yay.
http://open.spotify.com/track/0em18R0T5Phr6yv3bBP7cD

I am not discussing the pros and cons of abortion, I just simply mentioned the lack of medical tech to assess the health of the fetus about 30 years ago... Nevethless , its a good post

 

[Rasofy]

D. If you read all my posts in this thread, you will see that I mentioned about the positive impact that my sister had on my Outlook towards life.. Another suggestion, if you have not already, you may want to read Ginko's post...

I'm different from you. Like RedH mentioned, for some of us the intellectual connection is quite important.

I know INTPs' tendeny to be logical, yet there is a major difference between "cruelty", and "rationality" and your stand seems to be of the first one.

Maybe I'm both. But abortion is not murder. It's like destroying a seed, but a bit more controversial.

 

[kyuuei]

Ummm.... thats a great point, having a role of care taker of someone who does not appear to be a person with" special needs" seem to be more challenging. I

I tend to have an issue with the term "damged" after all, are not we all damaged somewhow, maybe emotionally or spritualily,...

I believe that when life cuicumstances place you in the posotions to be around people with "special needs",( especially if you are related by blood) its likely that you develop more sympothy towards people w other specialy needs....

My grandmother is damaged. There is no way around that. She was a perfectly healthy, functioning and intelligent woman and the disease wrecked havoc on her brain. It is definitely, visibly damaged with swiss-cheese like holes where healthy cells once were. It is an appropriate term for her situation.

I don't think I have as much sympathy as most people do, because.. I think it isn't my place to judge them that much. I feel like.. They obviously wanted the child, and that lifestyle.. so I don't really feel so bad for them in that regard. I really don't feel so bad for the child either, because thats the life the parents chose for them. Its a double edged sword, because I don't really care (so it allows me to befriend disabled easily, and their caregivers, and work in that environment without issue) but I also don't .. well.. care.. I don't give the caregivers that "Aww you poor thing.." attitude. I'm sure some would really desire that occasionally, but if I were a caregiver I'd abandon those desires. I save my sympathy for people who didn't ask for those sort of situations, like my Aunt. Since you really can't tell who asked for it and who didn't.. I sort of don't sympathize much at all.

Anyways.. I'd argue DS is better than Autism, if the DS is mild to moderate and the autism moderate to severe. Autism kids are a bitch to deal with no matter what, they were the most challenging to deal with at work. Deaf was easy, dumb easier, blind easiest, DS the funnest, and retardation of various sorts fair enough of a challenge depending on the severity.. Autism was difficult no matter what the level stated seemed to be.

 

[Tewt]

I work with adults with developmental disabilities. That said, no, I do not think they look funny, as in the haha sense. Generally, they do look different from the mainstream. I'm not sure why that is a question, though? It's a very normal process in diagnosing those with disabilities.

They can look different, but why is that in question?

 

[Tewt]

Mildly annoyed. They should have been aborted. I don't think they look funny.

Why do you think they should have been aborted?

 

[Rasofy]

Why do you think they should have been aborted?

We're the only species that try to save life that's not self-sustaining.
We could be exchanging a useless person for a person that's gonna find the cure for the HIV.
The world is already overpopulated. We need to allocate resources wisely.
I don't expect anyone to agree with me. I was supposed to be a spartan. Something went wrong.

 

[Rasofy]

And Darya, if you just wanted us to make you feel good about your situation, you should've told us before. If I knew you had a sister with DS, I'd have ignored the thread.

 

[Betty Blue]

Anyways.. I'd argue DS is better than Autism, if the DS is mild to moderate and the autism moderate to severe. Autism kids are a bitch to deal with no matter what, they were the most challenging to deal with at work. Deaf was easy, dumb easier, blind easiest, DS the funnest, and retardation of various sorts fair enough of a challenge depending on the severity.. Autism was difficult no matter what the level stated seemed to be.

I'd say this is largely to do with the individual teaching, their skillset and understanding.
Each has their own challenges in a world where they are not catered to on a whole sense.

I do not think that children/babies/seeds (whatever your preferred definition) should be aborted purely on the basis that they have downs syndrome. However i do believe it is the parents right as long as careful deliberation is used and it's not just an alternative to birth control.

I have experience with lots of individuals with many of those mentioned above and close personal experience of one particular individual with downs syndrome who lived next door to my father.
Yes it is difficult for the family but i do not think, in hindsight, they would have chosen not to have him. Unlike several posters here i try not to judge on their basis of what intellect is.
I actually believe we have something to learn from people with down syndrome and thsi thread is a fantastic example of what that is.