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  1. #11
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    I'm no psychologist, but I think it's a matter of the degree/extremity of the behaviours described there.
    Withdrawal is a real issue but the description is problematic, especially the use of the word preference. What I think they are trying to say is an active preference to socially detach from other people. We introverts don't really have a choice but those who are not have, and if they choose to over-ride their natural tendencies and withdraw, then it could be a symptom of a problem.
    In other words, this is what happens when a non-introvert starts acting like one
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  2. #12
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Maybe it's covered under Narcissistic or Histrionic Personality Disorder?
    How about mania?
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    I was going to object to histrionic PD, but yeah, that does seem like pathologized extraversion. I work with the DSM quite a lot now that I'm pursuing the MSW to licensed clinician route, and people in social work are very, very ambivalent about the DSM because it is so deficits-based and medicalized. I see a use for it--it's good to be able to talk across professions about a client's needs based on a diagnosis. But when you learn about 1. the history of diagnoses (like homosexuality, as the classic example) and 2. the huge funding bias it has to big pharm, the DSM seems like a pretty dangerous thing to regard as biblical (kind of like the Bible, really!).

    That said, it's good to remember that when clinicians and psychiatrists are diagnosing a person, usually they are diagnosing a problem that is getting in the way of that person's functioning and independence--something that led to the person showing up in a hospital or office. There is a difference between someone who is an introvert and someone who is social-phobic, in my opinion. In either case, if a person is to work on something like "withdrawal" or social phobia or whatever, the person needs to want to do that (which generally means that s/he needs to identify it as a problem him/herself).
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  4. #14
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Fuck the DSM, frankly. Arbitrary rubbish that changes with popular opinion - you won't learn anything about yourself or anyone else from it.
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  5. #15
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    I'm really happy my theatrics (and the theatrics of others) are being taken out of the DSM, as well. Histrionic is no longer going to be the DSM either (one therapist diagnosed me as Histrionic several years ago, but subsequent therapists utterly ignored this diagnosis, seemed to erase it).

    @Eileen

    Histrionic isn't pathologicalized extroversion, actually Borderline Personality Disorder is pathologicalized extroversion, as is narcissism...narcissism I think may be taken out of the DSM as well, though.

    Which means I can go back to calling narcissists "bad people"?

  6. #16
    Step into my office. Luv Deluxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Histrionic isn't pathologicalized extroversion, actually Borderline Personality Disorder is pathologicalized extroversion, as is narcissism...narcissism I think may be taken out of the DSM as well, though.

    Which means I can go back to calling narcissists "bad people"?
    So, according to you, would introverts be unable to present with BPD?
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntiheroComplex View Post
    So, according to you, would introverts be unable to present with BPD?
    No, but one of the symptoms of BPD is intolerance of being alone, and feelings of emptiness or boredom when not externally preoccupied from one's own self.

    Even if you're some kind of introvert, you're clearly externally focused in an unhealthy way.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    No, but one of the symptoms of BPD is intolerance of being alone, and feelings of emptiness or boredom when not externally preoccupied from one's own self.

    Even if you're some kind of introvert, you're clearly externally focused in an unhealthy way.
    All of the personality disorder diagnoses are really, really problematic--but since we're talking about what's in the DSM, I hardly think you can say, when looking at the checklists of symptoms, that borderline has more to do with extraversion than histrionic does. HPD is pretty damn externally-focused--not that BPD isn't, but HPD seems moreso to me.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    I was going to object to histrionic PD, but yeah, that does seem like pathologized extraversion. I work with the DSM quite a lot now that I'm pursuing the MSW to licensed clinician route, and people in social work are very, very ambivalent about the DSM because it is so deficits-based and medicalized. I see a use for it--it's good to be able to talk across professions about a client's needs based on a diagnosis. But when you learn about 1. the history of diagnoses (like homosexuality, as the classic example) and 2. the huge funding bias it has to big pharm, the DSM seems like a pretty dangerous thing to regard as biblical (kind of like the Bible, really!).

    That said, it's good to remember that when clinicians and psychiatrists are diagnosing a person, usually they are diagnosing a problem that is getting in the way of that person's functioning and independence--something that led to the person showing up in a hospital or office. There is a difference between someone who is an introvert and someone who is social-phobic, in my opinion. In either case, if a person is to work on something like "withdrawal" or social phobia or whatever, the person needs to want to do that (which generally means that s/he needs to identify it as a problem him/herself).
    Is the CID any better? I'm curious.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Is the CID any better? I'm curious.
    I'm not familiar with the CID; I feel like I've learned about an alternative to the DSM and can't recall the details. What is it? A cursory google search did not help me.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

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