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  1. #31
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenon View Post
    I've been acknowledging from the beginning that there is a difference in the MBTI and common psychological definitions of introversion/extroversion, so I'm not sure why you felt the need to quote the dictionary to me.
    It's simply because I did not read your previous posts on this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenon View Post
    My points are 1. Many MBTI introverts also relate to the more standard definition of an introvert in a number of ways (from my own observations and experience, more often than not), and many people here identify with both and 2. The article is painting a picture of introverts as not liking/being indifferent to people, which isn't accurate regardless of which definition you use - preferring to spend more time alone or have fewer relationships doesn't mean the relationships you do have are any less important or you are "indifferent" to them. Psychologists have been saying this for years; there's no reason for the article not to make this distinction. Therefore, even if there were no relationship at all between the two definitions of "introvert" and the article was only talking about the common psychological definition, the criticisms that have come up in this thread would still be valid.
    I deleted the rest of your comment because it treats me like an inanimate object.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #32
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Sounds like autism to me, not introversion.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  3. #33
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    M-W.com states that the first known use of the term "introversion" was in 1654. It is possible that its first known psychological (versus biological or some other) use was by Jung.
    That sounds cool, where is the information for that, id love to read up on it.

    I had assumed that something akin or at least in trait being descriptive of Intro/extraversion would be around at some point but most books ive read claim he gave the world those particular terms. The concepts of course may be much much older.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  4. #34
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    I feel you, yeah.

    'Offensive' studies aren't necessarily wrong. But if the results of studies don't jive with our intuition and experience, though--especially in matters as "soft" as psychology--they ought to be examined for internal consistency ("it makes sense") and external validation ("yes, it's flippin' true").

    Part of the problem is that scientific studies use language such as "x this suggests that y" and the media touts it as "Holy shit, x is y!! Forever!! Protect your kids!! Kill everyone of a different ethnicity!" Since our scope gets blown up, we've been told at least a few times that we can't predict some of the things that we've purported to predict, that we're part of a government conspiracy, etc.

    LiveScience is mostly on track here, but some of the other articles are embarrassing as hell in their interpretation of this work. Then again, Fishman is the one making pretty bold claims in that interview--look at that paragraph about what the study "supports."

    And here's Fishman et al. At first glance, it seems that it's mostly misinterpreted--the study is mostly claiming that introverts aren't as stimulated by human faces, not that they can't tell the difference between a damn face and a flower.
    Quoted for emphasis.

  5. #35
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Might this really be one of those "well, duh" sort of studies? Like "yeah let's have these people take this test that determines their I/E preference based on questions like whether they are more or less responsive to strangers, and then see if the Es are more responsive to the stranger's faces or not. And omigosh they are!"

  6. #36
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    That sounds cool, where is the information for that, id love to read up on it.

    I had assumed that something akin or at least in trait being descriptive of Intro/extraversion would be around at some point but most books ive read claim he gave the world those particular terms. The concepts of course may be much much older.
    It's right here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extrave...d_introversion
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #37
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Might this really be one of those "well, duh" sort of studies? Like "yeah let's have these people take this test that determines their I/E preference based on questions like whether they are more or less responsive to strangers, and then see if the Es are more responsive to the stranger's faces or not. And omigosh they are!"
    Probably.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #38
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I have read that before. But I didn't see the part about 1654, although I might have missed it.

    As for that part about Jung popularising the terms, technically this is a case of which sources to trust...however what I read about 'giving them to the world' could have been meant as 'popularised' and I misread it.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    I have read that before. But I didn't see the part about 1654, although I might have missed it.

    As for that part about Jung popularising the terms, technically this is a case of which sources to trust...however what I read about 'giving them to the world' could have been meant as 'popularised' and I misread it.
    The part about 1654 I stated was at M-W.com. That's where you find word etymologies and origins.

    "Giving them to the world" sounds rather exaggerated.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #40
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    The part about 1654 I stated was at M-W.com. That's where you find word etymologies and origins.

    "Giving them to the world" sounds rather exaggerated.
    It does, doesn't it? Cheers for the information though.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

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