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How important is self-knowledge of intelligence?

Cellmold

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Ive been wondering about this topic for a while after reading another forum where the inevitable: 'What is your IQ?' topic cropped up and a couple of tests were thrown around, most notably these two:

http://www.iqout.com/ <If you are curious I got 99 on this one.

http://www.iqtest.dk/main.swf < 105 on this one

Both slightly above what I expected.


Basically the discussion descended into the usual argument about how IQ is related to intelligence or being 'smart' and whether or not there is any validity in this and about a politically correct agenda against making people feel inadequate.

But I did wonder about the nature of intelligence. I think it is important to utilise it when it comes along and to make sure people are reaching some kind of potential.

However, I can also see the argument against singling people out or adhereing too strongly to the superiority of your 'apparent' intelligence.

The worst outcome is someone believing they are right or correct, merely on the basis that they are intelligent. Although this is not to downplay the brilliance of a clearly genius mind.

Of course we all know that intelligence is a multifaceted creature defined by so many amazing and interesting factors beyond the typical notions of what people believe constitutes intelligence.

The point is that I have to ask: Will people ever be ready to face their own inadequacies? And even if they do, is it possible without falling into a deep self-conscious depression? And does the knowledge of limitations in intelligence stop people trying as hard as they could?

Ive always acknowledged that my intelligence is average at best, that has never been a mystery to me, but very often I find myself wondering what it would be like for someone who was so highly intelligent, to see all these connections, twists, turns and ideas that might be so far out of mind's reach to others that it would be like comparing the size of the sun to the size of the earth....and perhaps even more stark than that.

Then again perhaps I would not enjoy the true loneliness of such a mind.

What are peoples thoughts on this?
 

Santosha

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The point is that I have to ask: Will people ever be ready to face their own inadequacies?

It depends on the person and what you mean by facing inadequacy and what the authority on inadequacy is. I mean, there are just soo many variables and interpretations of this so I struggle with any real direction. But here are some random thoughts on it:

Are there people out there who couldn't care less what number they are attributed on a test? Yeah. Are there people who, despite a lowered IQ, seem to love more, live more, accomplish more and generally experience more reward throughout life.. absolutely.

I don't think ones capacity for intelligence is all that special in the same way that I don't think being born ridiculously rich or beautiful or talented is all that special. It was a given, a freebe.. and in the scheme of things its your actualization not your potential. If there was some way to quantify this.. I would look at the capacity/actualization ratio to decide who I hold in higher regard.


And even if they do, is it possible without falling into a deep self-conscious depression?

I think so. I honestly can't imagine why someone would fall into a terrible depression over it. Okay okay.. there probably are people who put alot of weight on what the IQ tests say, have somehow been conditioned to value this above all else, but oh what a limited perception and existance (imo). I can't imagine myself being too upset by it (I took both those tests earlier and scored slightly above average.. not as high as I thought I would, lol..) because those tests don't hold any real signifigance to me. Pattern recognition.. WOO HA.. until that test can show me exactly how getting a 114 on it is going to directly impact my quality of living, to hell with it.

And does the knowledge of limitations in intelligence stop people trying as hard as they could?
I doubt it but hey.. anythings possible :D
 

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I scored 130 on the first test. The same or a better result is only reached by 10.76% of the people taking the test.

Since I was a child, I felt that I'd only had an average intelligence; however, as I grew up, I was constantly baffled by the amount of stupid decisions my peers were making. I've come to terms with the fact that I'm intelligent, I guess, but I still don't feel that special. Sure I'm quick to pick up on certain things, but I'm still completely oblivious to other things and I'm still immature in my own way.

The one thing I feel which separates me from most other people is that I know my limitations and it depresses me. I'm smart enough to realize I'm smart (or that everyone else is stupid,) yet I'm dumb enough and immature enough to not be able to capitalize on it as well as I could. As a result of this view, I would say that I value maturity more than intelligence in some ways. After all, who are you going to trust to do a job? A slow person who is an extremely dedicated and hard worker or a genius who can't see a project through to completion? Well, I guess there are merits for both answers, but I'll say the majority of tasks require the hard worker and not the genius.
 

UniqueMixture

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You know, I think this is happening a lot as standards of perfection become global rather than regional. I mean, just a few hundred years ago, you probably wouldn't have encontered more than 1,000 people in your life. I think eventually what we'll discover is that gene sets create their own "niches" so you're most likely a member of several gene sets that come with costs and benefits and you have genes optimized for some tasks and not for others just like everything else. The "strong" genes can also be a weakness and surprisingly "weak" genes can also be a strength by fostering altruism. Life is this really weird fascinating multi-faceted thing but people who think in a "x is good" "y is bad" mode can't see that level of complexity.
 

Turtledove

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Wow...I got a score of 94 on the first and a 95 on the second. I basically started to fudge the tests because my head was hurting and I was getting impatient with testing so long. It's not my idea of fun, to be honest. It seems like they're trying to make you measure patterns in the system.

Woo hoo! I'm the stupidest person on the site!
I have a photographic memory, but I ran out of film! Ha ha!
 

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Wow...I got a score of 94 on the first and a 95 on the second. I basically started to fudge the tests because my head was hurting and I was getting impatient with testing so long. It's not my idea of fun, to be honest. It seems like they're trying to make you measure patterns in the system.

Woo hoo! I'm the stupidest person on the site!

I don't think the first test is very fair to be honest. I felt like 45 seconds was much too fast to analyze some of the questions; particularly the ones in sets of nine. There were a few times where I'd go to try and click for an answer and miss it by a few seconds. I also feel like having more practical knowledge of how the test functions would increase how well one did on the test. God, it was annoying the hell out of me that I couldn't see the correlation of how some of those figures changed shape. Why did the square suddenly become a cone when there were no adjacent objects...then why did it stay a cone the next frame!? Shouldn't it have continued its regression!?!?!?!?!?! GRAAAAAH! It also becomes gradually more difficult to concentrate the longer you've been testing.

I didn't feel as though the 4-panelled questions were problematic though. Some were difficult, but at least with those ones I felt I could absorb the information before me.
 

Cellmold

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I don't think the first test is very fair to be honest. I felt like 45 seconds was much too fast to analyze some of the questions; particularly the ones in sets of nine. There were a few times where I'd go to try and click for an answer and miss it by a few seconds. I also feel like having more practical knowledge of how the test functions would increase how well one did on the test. God, it was annoying the hell out of me that I couldn't see the correlation of how some of those figures changed shape. Why did the square suddenly become a cone when there were no adjacent objects...then why did it stay a cone the next frame!? Shouldn't it have continued its regression!?!?!?!?!?! GRAAAAAH! It also becomes gradually more difficult to concentrate the longer you've been testing.

I didn't feel as though the 4-panelled questions were problematic though. Some were difficult, but at least with those ones I felt I could absorb the information before me.

Im not sure if it affects your score, but I believe you can refresh the timer on the questions.

But that might have been the other test.
 

durentu

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What you have doesn't matter.

What you do with what you have, matters.

savvy ?
 

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Online tests are notoriously unreliable. A psychologist administered test or even the percentile ranking on a major admissions test like the GMAT or LSAT or GRE or even SAT are more reliable indicators of intelligence.

Having said all that, I think self-awareness in general is the key to living a happy, healthy, well-integrated life to its fullest potential. I think when it comes to intelligence and aptitudes people generally under or over estimate at least 1 thing (whether it's the belief that one is a very socially suave person, a great singer, "clever", etc.) and neglect strengths and weaknesses because they aren't fully aware of them. Or rather, it's all relative.

If you are self-aware and still choose to make decisions based on what you WANT to do rather than what you are GOOD at, at least you will have made an informed decision. Also, there's no underestimating what strategic hard work can do. Just because you aren't as good at something as someone else doesn't mean you are incapable of achieving something, it just means you will have to go about it differently and usually work harder than them.

And at the end of the day, how you interpret self-knowledge/self-awareness is a relative thing. I remember 2 cases of people speaking positively of testing in the 70-80th percentiles for something. Once was my comp sci teacher who said he was a goof-off in highschool but realized after taking a state diagnostic test that he was good at math because he tested somewhere in the 80th percentile tiles and that spurred him to teach math/science later.

The second was an admissions counselor at a private high school who used the example of his own son who was in constantly in trouble in school and failing out but had scored in the 70th percentiles on state diagnostic exams so was told by his guidance counselor that he was capable of much more. You tell that to a "Tiger Mom" or the great majority of Asian immigrant parents and they will be like WTF, beat you with a textbook, and tell you to do better next time. That kind of reaction usually stirs a belief in children that not only are they capable and "deserving" of getting in the 99% but they MUST.

Soooooo just my 2 cents. :D
 

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Im not sure if it affects your score, but I believe you can refresh the timer on the questions.

But that might have been the other test.

It only refreshes the clock to show how much time you have left; it doesn't reset the timer aspect of it.
 

Cellmold

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It only refreshes the clock to show how much time you have left; it doesn't reset the timer aspect of it.

Ah ok, I didn't really pay attention to it, it was just something I noted in passing.

Thanks for the clarification. I do agree with you about the time constraints actually, sometimes I thought I was just working out the system, then realised I had no time left!! So I rushed one or two.

What you have doesn't matter.

What you do with what you have, matters.

savvy ?

Agreed with that. But while I could have summed it up that way and in fact I did in one sentence, I really wanted a bit more of a....discussion.
 

Cellmold

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I don't think ones capacity for intelligence is all that special in the same way that I don't think being born ridiculously rich or beautiful or talented is all that special. It was a given, a freebe.. and in the scheme of things its your actualization not your potential. If there was some way to quantify this.. I would look at the capacity/actualization ratio to decide who I hold in higher regard.

I think so. I honestly can't imagine why someone would fall into a terrible depression over it. Okay okay.. there probably are people who put alot of weight on what the IQ tests say, have somehow been conditioned to value this above all else, but oh what a limited perception and existance (imo). I can't imagine myself being too upset by it (I took both those tests earlier and scored slightly above average.. not as high as I thought I would, lol..) because those tests don't hold any real signifigance to me. Pattern recognition.. WOO HA.. until that test can show me exactly how getting a 114 on it is going to directly impact my quality of living, to hell with it.

Thanks for the reply, id say this is a nice answer which shows your maturity towards such subjects.
Unfortunately I think a lot of people do indeed define themselves by such criteria, not necessarily IQ tests but intelligence in general.

Too many see it as a competition rather than a tool for usage. Of course anti-intellectualism is the direct result of these feelings of inadequacy as most people probably suspect.
Id say there are three ways in which intelligence is most beneficial and how it should, (yes should is a strong word and implies a lot of pressure but my true attitude is far removed from that), be used:

1) To help better yourself.

2) To help better the lives of those around you

and of course

3) Both of the above.

I think the worst conflicts in regards to intelligence come about because people mistake 1) for an attitude of superiority, this is further confounded by the reality that some people DO indeed adhere to intelligence as a factor of superiority.

Ironically it is sometimes true that people who are not that intelligent often see intelligence as this competition in the first place.

Also while I said better yourself or others, the point is not to bring about some world changing event or system to bring us closer to a utopia or something, it is more that people simply live their lives in a positive manner. In a way which others can learn from, bit by bit we drip water onto a stone and reshape it over and over.

From the smallest interactions entire populations can be moved, it's all part of the infrastructure of humanity.

Of course it is easy to say this from the comfort of an armchair in front of a pc.
 

durentu

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Agreed with that. But while I could have summed it up that way and in fact I did in one sentence, I really wanted a bit more of a....discussion.


well... can't really have a good discussion when people are in agreement. Where's the doubt or conflict?
 

Cellmold

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well... can't really have a good discussion when people are in agreement. Where's the doubt or conflict?

Lets create some!! Although I cant see why the throwing around of opinions and ideas cannot be part of a discussion. If people are not in agreement it usually turns into a debate very quickly, not that I dislike debate.

How about: Do you think a lot of people who possess a high intelligence deserve it? Is it even possible to claim that someone is 'deserving' or 'undeserving' of intelligence?
 

durentu

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Do you think a lot of people who possess a high intelligence deserve it? Is it even possible to claim that someone is 'deserving' or 'undeserving' of intelligence?

As far as intelligence is by nature (born with gifts), no attribution is possible because it's nature and is indifferent to human characterizations.

The question of deserving of intelligence comes from what that person has earned to hone their intelligence.

Again coming back to "it's not what you have, but what you do with what you have"
 

Cellmold

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As far as intelligence is by nature (born with gifts), no attribution is possible because it's nature and is indifferent to human characterizations.

The question of deserving of intelligence comes from what that person has earned to hone their intelligence.

Again coming back to "it's not what you have, but what you do with what you have"

Agreed!
 

Such Irony

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I got 106 on the first test and 130 on the second. Is such a spread between scores normal?

Honestly, I thought the first test was the hardest online IQ test I've ever taken and I've taken many of them. It was also one of my worst scores. 130 is a more typical score for me.

The first test I hoped that if I missed several hard ones in a row it would give me some easier ones. Well I think it did because the last several questions seemed a little easier but even the easiest questions were not *that* easy. It was still somewhat challenging to respond in 45 seconds and feel confident in that response.

The second test was more reasonable in difficulty and more what I've typically seen in IQ tests. The first few are extremely easy and the difficulty gradually increases throughout the test with the last several questions being fiendishly difficult.
 

Mole

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The measure of IQ puts us somewhere on the Bell Curve.

This means that almost all of us are in the middle, and a very few are at one end or the other. In other words very few of us have a high comparative IQ and very few of us have a comparative low IQ.

However those with a high or low IQ are different. And being different we are socially excluded.

Also those with a high or low IQ are different emotionally. Those with a high IQ are over excitable (OE), and those with a low IQ have an accurate emotional response.
 

Cellmold

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The measure of IQ puts us somewhere on the Bell Curve.

This means that almost all of us are in the middle, and a very few are at one end or the other. In other words very few of us have a high comparative IQ and very few of us have a comparative low IQ.

However those with a high or low IQ are different. And being different we are socially excluded.

Also those with a high or low IQ are different emotionally. Those with a high IQ are over excitable (OE), and those with a low IQ have an accurate emotional response.

Interesting points, although the thread is really about attitudes towards intelligence within ones self and others. However I have heard of the bell curve before, in fact one of those tests mentions it, the second I believe.

The difference in emotionality is actually very interesting to me, how did they find that out?
 
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