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  1. #41
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    that image of pete burns is terrifying
    I don’t know if I can write this in a way that will make sense…but when I saw that pic of pete burns…I had that instinctual (fear) response…like I was looking at someone that was severally injured and needed to jump to action to help. That is terrible. And I do think I have read or heard him say that he has an addiction to plastic surgery.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Do I think that anyone should stop anyone else from gettign PS? Ofcourse not. People should be able to do whatever they want to make themselves happier. Statistics have shown that most people that undergo PS do report higher self esteem afterwards. (Statistics also show that 42% of ps undergoers come back for more.)

    My opinion on why PS is not the best way to create self esteem is as follows;
    It involves a death risk factor. Low as it may be, it is still there. So when undergonig PS, you better be able to say that you accept the possible risk factors, and that your need for PS is so great that you will risk dying. This would indicate a great disatisfaction with ones self, unless this person also doesn't value life much.
    Beauty (imo) is a perception. What is beautiful in one culture is not always beautiful in another. There is no black and white of beauty.
    Yet there is a tremendous amount of beauty in ones natural state, as apposed to a plastic state. The features you wear are likely features reaching far back through generations of ancestors. At the moment of your conception, cells/dna was perfectly matched (in natures eye) to create the magnificently unique being called you. Perhaps that is a you with small boobs, or a weak chin, or a prominent nose, whatever.. but I beleive the process taken in your natural creation to be much greater than the process of a surgeon and a few instruments (though medical knowledge is also amazing.)
    Ones natural state also reflects to some degree, the health of their life. For instance, ER doctors will often look at someones nails or hair texture to understand vitamin deficiencies, hormononal imbalances, and possible diseases. Your complexion, your weight, your muscle tone, your teeth, all indicators of how well you take care of yourself. Taking care of ones self is healthy, thus beatiful.

    Because I believe the above to be true, I also beleive that a great dislike or non acceptance of ones natural being is unhealthy. The risk to alter it are also unhealthy. So it makes sense to me that the problem really lies within, and since surgeons are unable to perform ps on whatever thought processes or perceptions are causing the incongruence, that seeing a mind doctor might be a better way to go. Certainly less dangerous.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  3. #43
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    im lucky i live in a country where only like super shallow bitches get plastic surgeries. i dont think i would ever date anyone who had one, and im sure all my friends think the same. also i think it looks ugly to have botox, big plastic boobs, nose job or stuff like that. even the minor ones look unnatural, like some nose job looks like you got a nose that isnt yours. its really really rare that any sort of plastic surgery looks even remotely good, but even then i wouldnt date such a shallow idiot who follows other people blindly.

    if you think its ok, your perspective is fucked up due to living amongst too many people who had one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Statistics have shown that most people that undergo PS do report higher self esteem afterwards.
    thats because their self esteem was damaged due to living amongst people with unnatural beauty ideals that they cant can fulfill without getting one themselves.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  4. #44
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    I agree with skylights' post. That pic of the first girl who had her very large nose fixed, but still looked like herself is a perfect example of sane plastic surgery. That girl probably didn't want to change her whole look; she just wanted her nose to not be the first thing people saw when they looked at her. I think that is perfectly reasonable. It would also have been reasonable for her to just decide she liked her nose, but that is her decision to make, and no one should judge her for it.

    Agree also that Ashley Tisdale and Paris Hilton looked much, much better pre-surgery. Those were both women who didn't have a bad or attention-getting nose before, and getting a nose job didn't help them to become more attractive. Their choice, but IMO, bad judgment.

    On the other side of the coin, google old pics of Halle Berry. Before she had her nose slightly done, she was pretty, but not a world-class beauty.



    Refining her nose propelled her into beauty superstardom. There are tons of gorgeous women in Hollywood that have had good work done. Even those people think are natural. So that's a large part of the issue. It becomes very tempting to have a little tweaking here and there if it means furthering your career.

    Would Jennifer Garner have been a sex symbol without her full lips?



    One more thought: I don't think people are so much afraid of aging and death as they are aging and not being considered sexy. In our culture now, you're nothing if you're not considered sexy. Women and girls are doing everything they possibly can to portray themselves as desirable. Look at all the self-cam pics on any social network site. Look at the fact that no one thinks twice about showing cleavage all day long now. Look at how desperate young female stars are to take off their clothes for men's magazines. The list goes on. When we see a former sex symbol aging without surgery, ala Brigitte Bardot (who has done a LOT of amazing charity work), our reaction is revulsion. The Betty Whites of the world are becoming rarer and rarer. Women want to be seen as sexy until the day they die, which is where you get a lot of this desperation to have lifts, use botox and fillers, etc. Unsexy has become a fate worse than death.
    Something Witty

  5. #45
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    What about the health risks though? That has sort of been glossed over by most here. Put aside BDD or surgery addictions, and consider the risks of elective surgery. If it's not necessary for health reasons or is not any kind of reconstruction, then are the risks worth simply being prettier? There are real risks that going under the knife with anesthesia presents (and apparently these fillers & whatnot can be just as problematic). People talk about fear of aging & death being a driving force behind cosmetic surgery, and yet, there's no consideration that it's a life risk in itself, not to mention the possibility of botched surgery. I mean, what if you don't wake up?

    I realize it may not be common for people to die during or from cosmetic surgery, but there is far more risk than coloring hair, applying mascara, etc. They're not comparable. This is why I see it as much more shallower than other forms of enhancing appearance, because it's placing beauty & its benefits above your life/health.

    I know this man whose 20 yr old granddaughter died while under going breast augmentation. She went to a reputable doctor also. It just seems like such a frivolous thing to die for....
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  6. #46
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    What about the health risks though? That has sort of been glossed over by most here. Put aside BDD or surgery addictions, and consider the risks of elective surgery. If it's not necessary for health reasons or is not any kind of reconstruction, then are the risks worth simply being prettier? There are real risks that going under the knife with anesthesia presents (and apparently these fillers & whatnot can be just as problematic). People talk about fear of aging & death being a driving force behind cosmetic surgery, and yet, there's no consideration that it's a life risk in itself, not to mention the possibility of botched surgery. I mean, what if you don't wake up?

    I realize it may not be common for people to die during or from cosmetic surgery, but there is far more risk than coloring hair, applying mascara, etc. They're not comparable. This is why I see it as much more shallower than other forms of enhancing appearance, because it's placing beauty & its benefits above your life/health.

    I know this man whose 20 yr old granddaughter died while under going breast augmentation. She went to a reputable doctor also. It just seems like such a frivolous thing to die for....


    I saw a story years ago, but its always stuck in my mind. This beautiful 19 yr old girl, really a pretty girl.. decided to go in for 1 (ONE) lb of lipo reduction on her inner thighs.. the bandages were wrapped too tightly afterwards resulting in a blood clot and death.
    I think this is where the mainstreaming comes to play.. "everyone is getting it done right? Surgeons are more advanced than ever, right?" Ya, except there are still LOTS of things that can go wrong, even with the most reccomended surgeon with an amazing portfolio.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  7. #47
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    I think people should do what it takes to give them peace of mind. Frankly, it's none of my business and I certainly don't hold any negative opinion of those who choose to undergo surgery.
    Yeah, this. 100%

  8. #48
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone here is saying that people shouldn't be ALLOWED to have it done, or should be viewed as less than anyone else for having it done....

    I think the issue at hand is WHY people feel the need to have it done, and if there are better ways to resolve this.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  9. #49
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    A strive for perfection is almost always inspired by a feeling of inferiority, I don't see anything new to discuss. Other people choose plastic surgery to feel more comfortable (like smaller breasts or tighter skin).
    I think you want to conclude that "acceptance is always better", but it's only a matter of personal consideration of possible investments, not always consciously. If somebody thinks surgery is the easiest way to go despite of dangers (there are not many of them, you can cite personal horror stories about mostly everything) and has enough money to afford it, I say good for him.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw

    I believe more progress will be found in those that challenge the world to see beauty beyond this surface level, than those that conform to the worlds standards of it. Then again beauty will always lie in the eye of the beholder.. but to say this is not somewhat influenced by the external is crazy.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

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