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  1. #1
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    Default Introverted and Extroverted Loops and Mood Disorders

    I wonder, just out of curiousity, if anyone believes there's a link to people with cyclothymia or bipolar II weaving in and out of introverted and extroverted loops, like introverted loops during depression, and extroverted loops during mania.

    The reason why I say this is because there are different forms of bipolar disorder, and some of them don't involve hallucinations or losing touch with reality, they're primarily mood and activity related...and not everyone behaves the same. Like some people are more "happy" in mania (Ne/Fe?) and some people are more angry (Te/Se?)...I have wondered for a while if the way some people experience mania varies due to personality type.

    I'm not saying that being in an introverted loop (or an extroverted loop) means you have bipolar disorder, but that people who ACTUALLY DO have bipolar disorder will tend to fluctuate to imbalanced loops according to their own function order.

    Because a balanced person is balanced.

  2. #2
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    I've never been one to ponder much on MBTI "loops" of any kind.
    They just don't make sense to me.
    In my mind, they are "over abstractions" that might very well be better defined by descriptive language of better understood phenomena.

    Also, please understand I'm merely stating my views, not making claims as to what "is" or "is not" - CORRECT.

    In the case of bi-polar 2, I know two people who have it, and I know them very well.

    One is an introvert, the other is an extrovert.

    In the case of EITHER experiencing a depressive episode of any magnitude, I SEE LESS OF THEM, and I HEAR LESS FROM THEM.

    Depression is remarkably good at making most anyone prefer reclusion over contact with others.

    And in terms of considering introversion vs. extroversion, I am thinking of them in terms of whether they are "energized" or "drained" by contact with other people; and NOT in terms of whether they are "social" or "anti-social."

    That's my from the hip take on it.

    Any of my babbles registering as sensible, or not?



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  3. #3
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I wonder, just out of curiousity, if anyone believes there's a link to people with cyclothymia or bipolar II weaving in and out of introverted and extroverted loops, like introverted loops during depression, and extroverted loops during mania.

    The reason why I say this is because there are different forms of bipolar disorder, and some of them don't involve hallucinations or losing touch with reality, they're primarily mood and activity related...and not everyone behaves the same. Like some people are more "happy" in mania (Ne/Fe?) and some people are more angry (Te/Se?)...I have wondered for a while if the way some people experience mania varies due to personality type.

    I'm not saying that being in an introverted loop (or an extroverted loop) means you have bipolar disorder, but that people who ACTUALLY DO have bipolar disorder will tend to fluctuate to imbalanced loops according to their own function order.

    Because a balanced person is balanced.
    i dont know enough people with bipolar, so i cant really say to what extend they act according to their functions, so this is just hypothesizing

    i think with bipolar it is about being in extraverted and introverted modes. naturally psychological type is still there to shape how person behaves when in depressed or manic state. however i dont see it as ESFP being purely in SeTe mode when in manic state and FiNi when in depressed mode. i think with the case of ESFP, Te will be heavily repressed when in experiencing mania and it will be mostly SeFi with Se overload and Fi not working properly for the persons own good. basically if you are in happy go lucky mood(with everyone), you wont be concentrating on negatives as much as positives and in mania this Fi concentrating only on things that give positive judgment, repression of TeNi and Se leading the way too much for Fi is what its fundamentally about in this case.
    now when the depression part hits, its more about inferior Ni, Fi and them leading how Te analyzes the world. naturally you dont lose Se, its just repressed to the point where its not guiding you so much. when Fi is led by positive aspects of Se in mania, now its being led by negative shit lurking in the shadows, which erupts through inferior.

    but i think as with any repression, more you push stuff in your shadow, more vigorously it erupts. thats why these both ends of the (depressive-manic)spectrum are so strong. and i think people with higher mania, also suffer from more severe depression because of this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Any of my babbles registering as sensible, or not?
    It's the best kind of sensible.

    From firsthand experience, I can tell you that JCF isn't a good way to look at the poles. You can stretch JCF to try to make sense of a bipolar person, and you can describe the poles as such-and-such a loop, but you're doing yourself more of a service if you shift from diagnosing by JCF and instead diagnosing by the actual disorder.

    Mania is characterized by unbridled optimism, living at a fast pace, having a grandiose sense of self-confidence, and sometimes losing patience with a world that doesn't keep up with you. Depression is pretty much.. not that.

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    There is no relationship. Typological functions are based on a high-level theory of behavior that has little clinical basis. 'Bipolar disorder' and 'cyclothymia' are based on clinically observable behavior and on objective knowledge of neurology.The former is speculative, the later based on observation. The former, not unlike astrology, can be used to postulate features without adherence to a neurological underpinning; the later cannot because it requires parity with objective data.
    Last edited by Stanton Moore; 05-11-2012 at 08:36 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    It's the best kind of sensible.

    From firsthand experience, I can tell you that JCF isn't a good way to look at the poles. You can stretch JCF to try to make sense of a bipolar person, and you can describe the poles as such-and-such a loop, but you're doing yourself more of a service if you shift from diagnosing by JCF and instead diagnosing by the actual disorder.

    Mania is characterized by unbridled optimism, living at a fast pace, having a grandiose sense of self-confidence, and sometimes losing patience with a world that doesn't keep up with you. Depression is pretty much.. not that.
    I'm cyclothymic and I know persons who have Bipolar I and II, or who are cyclothymic or schizoaffective, so I don't need anyone to explain to me what bipolar disorder is.

    I'm speculating on why some people, when manic, go blow their bank account on hookers, while other people fly into angry rages and get into fights, some can't sleep for three days but write an award winning play, and others go on shopping sprees while screwing over all their friends and family members and giggling to themselves in the dark.

    I'm speculating over why mania and depression visibly differs in its expression in different people.

  7. #7
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    I'm guessing it has to do with ego and its development.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I'm cyclothymic and I know persons who have Bipolar I and II, or who are cyclothymic or schizoaffective, so I don't need anyone to explain to me what bipolar disorder is.
    Which works out well, because I wasn't explaining it to you.

    I'm speculating on why some people, when manic, go blow their bank account on hookers, while other people fly into angry rages and get into fights, some can't sleep for three days but write an award winning play, and others go on shopping sprees while screwing over all their friends and family members and giggling to themselves in the dark.

    I'm speculating over why mania and depression visibly differs in its expression in different people.
    I'm speculating about this, too. It's just that I'm of the mind that JCF is a terrible way to view mental disorders.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Which works out well, because I wasn't explaining it to you.


    I'm speculating about this, too. It's just that I'm of the mind that JCF is a terrible way to view mental disorders.
    Why? I didn't say that it made any one more or less mentally ill, or that it is the way to diagnose someone, but that it explains how different personalities cognitively express mania or hypomania and depression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I'm guessing it has to do with ego and its development.
    Okay...go on.

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