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  1. #11
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Well. If you agree with Freud,

    ...the id is the set of uncoordinated instinctual trends; the ego is the organized, realistic part; and the super-ego plays the critical and moralizing role.
    So, I think our minds seek balance, just like everything else in nature. And, as with any state of being or 'disorder,' how a person behaves under the throes is perhaps driven by what is lacking in the psyche, or what needs expression in the ego, id, or superego, depending on the individual. Jung would likely say its the unconscious becoming conscious. ?

    I think Jung and cognitive functions explain well our nature, while Freud's ideas of the psyche explain well our nurture.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Why? I didn't say that it made any one more or less mentally ill, or that it is the way to diagnose someone, but that it explains how different personalities cognitively express mania or hypomania and depression.
    I understood you when you said that someone in a loop may not necessarily be bipolar.

    You were wondering whether anyone believes that there's a link between expressions of mania and function loops. My answer is "probably not," but I'll ask my psych colleagues if they can clue me in on why different symptoms of mania present themselves differently in different people.

    If you want to try to figure out whether cognitive functions are related to expression of mania, you could treat the person for the disorder, see what their cognitive function patterns are, and determine whether their behavior as an unhealthy person matches up with their healthy type. I mean, that's what I've tried to do for myself.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Well. If you agree with Freud,



    So, I think our minds seek balance, just like everything else in nature. And, as with any state of being or 'disorder,' how a person behaves under the throes is perhaps driven by what is lacking in the psyche, or what needs expression in the ego, id, or superego, depending on the individual. Jung would likely say its the unconscious becoming conscious. ?
    Okay so Freud would say what is lacking in us, or what Jung called the shadow, would emerge...rather than cognitive loops, it would be the repressed shadow. (Just clarifying if that's what you mean?)

    I think Jung and cognitive functions explain well our nature, while Freud's ideas of the psyche explain well our nurture.
    Aha. Okay, interesting point.

  4. #14
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Well. If you agree with Freud,



    So, I think our minds seek balance, just like everything else in nature. And, as with any state of being or 'disorder,' how a person behaves under the throes is perhaps driven by what is lacking in the psyche, or what needs expression in the ego, id, or superego, depending on the individual. Jung would likely say its the unconscious becoming conscious. ?

    I think Jung and cognitive functions explain well our nature, while Freud's ideas of the psyche explain well our nurture.
    yea, but other stuff from jung, like complexes explain nurture better than freud. and how archetypes shape our complexes, explains nature via nurture, which is how people see genetic-environment interaction today(and jung saw archetypes as genetic and complexes as nurture). its funny that todays psychology is much more jungian(or sees psyche in more similar fashion) than freudian, even tho people freud is the more well known one and people dont even realize that what they say now, jung said similar things 100 years ago already, but not many listened..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  5. #15
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Okay so Freud would say what is lacking in us, or what Jung called the shadow, would emerge...rather than cognitive loops, it would be the repressed shadow. (Just clarifying if that's what you mean?)
    Yeah, I guess so. Nice tie.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    yea, but other stuff from jung, like complexes explain nurture better than freud. and how archetypes shape our complexes, explains nature via nurture, which is how people see genetic-environment interaction today(and jung saw archetypes as genetic and complexes as nurture). its funny that todays psychology is much more jungian(or sees psyche in more similar fashion) than freudian, even tho people freud is the more well known one and people dont even realize that what they say now, jung said similar things 100 years ago already, but not many listened..
    Don't know much about Jungian complexes. Will you explain them to me?

    Yeah, funny that about Freud in our modern mindset versus Jung. I think it's possibly all the sex stuff, you know, Oedipus complex and all.
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    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  6. #16
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Don't know much about Jungian complexes. Will you explain them to me?

    Yeah, funny that about Freud in our modern mindset versus Jung. I think it's possibly all the sex stuff, you know, Oedipus complex and all.
    complex is defined as 'feeling toned association around a common theme', these are the structures in the personal unconscious, like ego is the central organizing structure in the consciousness and archetypes are the structures in collective unconscious. even tho the word complex is usually misused as being something negative, its not referring to negative things. the basic idea is that we got complexes about everything. good example would be money complex, money itself is the theme and there are feeling toned associations that make up how you see money. this 'feeling toned association' has nothing to do with feeling function. for example with the money complex, first before you build these feeling toned associations around money, coins look like some random metal object and paper money just looks like some fancy paper. but when you are growing up and you learn to associate things to money, like when you got your first job and was able to buy a car, when you got some money from your parents as a kid and were able to trade it for candy, etc etc. this way these unconscious feeling toned associations build your concept of money, how you view money is the product of the associations you have on this theme called money. or the theme could be mother and the associations would be all the things you associate to this theme, which would be your mother complex, how you view the theme 'mother'.

    i think the reason why complex got so negative view in the public was because basically if you have negative or disturbing associations around money, it might make for example you an compulsive gambler. and the point of jungian therapy(or part of it, depending on the case) is to bring the causes for these disturbing associations to consciousness, so that you can work with the gambling(or what ever) problem.

    the main idea in the structure of psyche is that the deepest level is the collective unconscious, then the personal unconscious and then consciousness. and that archetypes from the collective unconscious can give archetypal aspects to your complexes(which is the case with freuds oedipus/elektra complex), or the theme of a complex might be archetypal. and complexes kinda lead your conscious behavior to a certain degree. if you for example are compulsive gambler and you dont want to be one, its the complex that is guiding you to gamble, even tho you consciously know its wrong.

    oh and jung didnt disagree with freud on his stuff, except when it comes to freuds idea that human psyche, or actually libido is purely sexual, jung saw it as much wider thing, basically what we today call action potential in neuroscience. jung saw libido as being the overall life force, and agreed with freud that there are also sexual aspects to it and that sexuality is a big part of being an human and guides our behavior to a large degree, its just that he saw that there is also something else on being human, which freud couldnt handle, so they broke up..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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