F---ing logics

[nightning]

F-ing logics... I mean feeling logics...

Why do we consider feelings to be not logic? Or is it?

Can feelings ever be logical?

Discuss.

 

[colmena]

I can't help but think of it in a science/faith, reductionism/holism, thinking/feeling, two sides of the same, slightly abstract, out of focus coin kind of way.

I'm in a pious mind-set, so I'll say that: the fact that they exist and wield such extraordinary power makes them correct and they are reliable in that they are so personally and socially perennial.

Not that I could ever understand such pointless things.

 

[Kiddo]

Well logic is suppose to be systematic reasoning that is unbiased by emotion.

However, many feelings are rational, so I guess it's complicated.

 

[Totenkindly]

I would assume that feelings without definable source come across as random and thus illogical.

Feelings that result from a particular event or situation, predictable feelings, would come across as logical.

Feelings that leave you behaving in predictable/patterned ways would seem logical.

 

[Haphazard]

Feelings are logical but mostly correspond to people. Because we are people, we would have an infinite use of 'feeling' rational function -- especially introverted feeling, because you are always around as long as you are alive.

Feeling is rational and has to do with people. Thinking is rational and has to do with not-people.

Feeling can be 'illogical' but unless there is something seriously wrong with the person experiencing them, they are usually rational responses that can be justified by the situation. Both feelings and thoughts can cause people to behave irrationally, though.

 

[nightning]

thinking/feeling... why is thinking labelled logical? There can be illogical thinking as well.

Hap: Rational feelings... Dealing with people is logical? *scratches head*

Feelings that result from a particular event or situation, predictable feelings, would come across as logical.

Feelings that leave you behaving in predictable/patterned ways would seem logical.

So feelings is logical when it's "conventional" acting in a manner that people normally should? And illogical when it's unpredictable?

What you're saying is feelings only "feels" logical.

 

[rhinosaur]

I would argue that no feelings are ever illogical, because they always have some kind of basis. Something happens, you have an emotion. Deconvoluting the reason why you had that particular emotion might be very difficult, but the reason is always there.

The same goes with actions. Actions that appear illogical to someone else always have a basis that makes sense to the person performing the actions. Sometimes the actions may not be rational, but they may be logical.

Maybe I've got the wrong definition of "logical" in my head. Whatever. My definition makes sense to me. Actions that are not rational, but are logical, come about when the person acts either solely on feeling or solely on thinking, and are immature. For example, an INTP who neglects the Fe often makes decisions that are logical, but are not rational. Similarly, an ESFJ who neglects the Ti often makes decisions that are logical (in other words, congruent with their mindset and what they desire), but not rational.

 

[nightning]

I would argue that no feelings are ever illogical, because they always have some kind of basis. Something happens, you have an emotion. Deconvoluting the reason why you had that particular emotion might be very difficult, but the reason is always there.

The same goes with actions. Actions that appear illogical to someone else always have a basis that makes sense to the person performing the actions. Sometimes the actions may not be rational, but they may be logical.

Maybe I've got the wrong definition of "logical" in my head. Whatever. My definition makes sense to me. Actions that are not rational, but are logical, come about when the person acts either solely on feeling or solely on thinking, and are immature. For example, an INTP who neglects the Fe often makes decisions that are logical, but are not rational. Similarly, an ESFJ who neglects the Ti often makes decisions that are logical (in other words, congruent with their mindset and what they desire), but not rational.

Funny... I would say feelings are never logical. You're right that rational is not the same as logical. Logics works by algorithms. You will always make the same decision using logics. With feelings? Decision varies based on whim. Hardly logical.

With that said, Fe and Fi are not logical. So feelers acting on feelings are always illogical.

 

[rhinosaur]

Funny... I would say feelings are never logical. You're right that rational is not the same as logical. Logics works by algorithms. You will always make the same decision using logics. With feelings? Decision varies based on whim. Hardly logical.

With that said, Fe and Fi are not logical. So feelers acting on feelings are always illogical.

But the whim is based on your emotions, which are based on your desires and your brain chemistry. Everything can be broken down into smaller and smaller pieces until you find the source of the decision, or the emotion, or whatever. There is always a reason, though it may not always be obvious. The only exception is random, thoughtless accidents.

 

[nightning]

I'm not saying feelings occurs without cause... I'm simply saying it's illogical.

Logic doesn't come from brain chemistry... Brain chemistry does allow a person to utilize logic though.

 

[rhinosaur]

What is logic, again?
I think I may have the wrong definition in my head.
*looks back over posts*
Hmm, this may be right:

Well logic is suppose to be systematic reasoning that is unbiased by emotion.

I suppose I was confusing some kind of cause and effect for this "systematic reasoning" stuff. Hmmm. Someone needs to loan me a dictionary or something.

 

[Thursday]

Feelings are not logical
feelings and logic can and are often flawed
irrationality is the unhealthy preponderance of one, without the other
and thus, we can conclude that logic and feelings are only two sides to a coin
whether or not that coin is sullied with irrationality, depends on the person
a mature one would incorporate the style foreign to them

not contingent on type,function, or green eggs and ham
but ration-ality
proportionate
healthy

 

[Athenian200]

My guess is that the things feelings and logic are used for are quite different.

Logic tells you the nature of a situation/event and whether or not connections exist between it and other situations/events. Feeling tells you the nature of something's relationship to you, or the nature of its relationship to someone else.

They don't even do the same things, so they can't really be compared. They can be used together, however, because knowing the nature of a situation is going to impact how you perceive its relationship to you, and knowing something's relationship to you is going to impact how you perceive its nature.

For instance, if you were about to be hit by a train, logic would tell you that you will die if you get hit by the train. Feeling would tell you that you don't want to die (unless of course you're suicidal). Logic would tell you that the way to avoid death is to step off the tracks. Feeling would choose to do this because of it's desire not to die. This all happens very quickly.

Without feeling, the person would have known the train could kill them, and how they could avoid it, but would not have had any motivation to act on this knowledge. Without logic, they would have vaguely been aware that something bad was going to happen that they wanted to avoid, but had no idea what was going on, or what to do about it.

In essence, logic tells you what's happening, feeling tells you how and whether it affects you.

 

[elfinchilde]

F-ing logics... I mean feeling logics...

Why do we consider feelings to be not logic? Or is it?

Can feelings ever be logical?

Discuss.

because it mostly appears as irrationality. so if logic = rationality, then by extrapolation, feeling = irrationality.

i do think there's a logic to feelings though. what i call emotive logic. ie, if you can figure out the motivations behind the feeling, and what triggers it and all, then, you rationalise the feeling.

that gives one a better grounds upon which to act, rather than unconscious/subconscious acting all the time.

 

[Kiddo]

I think the original question may be too vague. It is just a battle of semantics in what constitutes "logic" and what constitutes "feelings". So completely depending upon how one wants to define the words "logic" and "feelings" the result could be that "feelings are logic" or "feelings aren't logic."

 

[Haphazard]

thinking/feeling... why is thinking labelled logical? There can be illogical thinking as well.

Hap: Rational feelings... Dealing with people is logical? *scratches head*

I guess one could say that feelings themselves are illogical (brain chemistry, etc) but it's possible to respond to them in a reasoned, logical manner.

Although one could go ahead and say that if we accept that a certain stimuli does something to a person, then we can predict responses, thus making there be some sort of logic to it. It wouldn't be the same sort of logic as mathematics, but it'd still be there.

I agree with Kiddo on this one. Too vague. Please define.

 

[nightning]

Blame the N... The question or idea is never fully formed in my mind beforehand, so I always start out vague.

Here's the definition of logic from Merriam-Webster

1a. a science that deals with the principles and criteria of validity of inference and demonstration : the science of the formal principles of reasoning (2): a branch or variety of logic <modal logic> <Boolean logic> (3): a branch of semiotic; especially : syntactics (4): the formal principles of a branch of knowledge
b (1): a particular mode of reasoning viewed as valid or faulty (2): relevance, propriety
c: interrelation or sequence of facts or events when seen as inevitable or predictable
d: the arrangement of circuit elements (as in a computer) needed for computation; also : the circuits themselves

That also sounds a little vague. But my take on logic is that it's principles/methods of analyzing data such that you can derive a "sound" decision. Under the system of logics, you obtain the same answer given the same input. Thus the system has an inherently rigid framework.

What I don't understand is why the dictionary give this second shorter definition...

2. something that forces a decision apart from or in opposition to reason <the logic of war>

Feelings is just feelings! Inherent physiological/emotional responses to a given situation. I don't see why feelings are the opposite side of the coin to logic. Because they're not! They're simply inputs to a system.

Yet people always have to equate feelings as being "equal" to logic. Listen to all of you... especially you Ts with your "logic in feelings".

Is society so keen on making everything equal? Even the dictionary can't seem to get away from it! "something that forces a decision apart from or in opposition to reason" The meaning of reason here is systematical reasoning... that's logic. What is the meaning of "in opposition to reason"? Fluffy feelings?

Why can't we say feelings are illogical and be done with that? But no... it seems like to please the Fs we have to say feelings are "logical".

 

[Owl]

F-ing logics... I mean feeling logics...

Why do we consider feelings to be not logic? Or is it?

Can feelings ever be logical?

Discuss.

Feelings have a rational basis; the way we feel at a certain time is connected to how we interpret what is going on at that time, and interpretation is a rational, and thus logical, function.

E.g. You and I are walking down a wooded path. Up ahead, I see what I think is a bear, and I begin to panic. You, on the other hand, see a large tree stump up ahead, and you remain calm.

In this example, we are both using reason, (as codified in the laws of logic), to interpret our experience, and how we feel is determined by our interpretation.

What is irrational is to let feeling override rational interpretation. If our rational interpretation is incorrect, our feelings will not be well suited to the situation. (e.g., it there really were a bear and you continued walking toward it, that could end very badly.) I.e., our feelings can be misleading, but sound arguments are never misleading.

 

[Haphazard]

Oh, so that's what this is about.

According to what MBTI says, 'feeling' is making rational decisions in regards to your own and other people's feelings (be they your own, as in Fi, or be they others, as in Fe.), and 'thinking' is making rational decisions in regards to more concrete ideas. This only references decision-making and has no bearing on whether feelings or concrete ideas are logical or not, it only accounts for what is considered more in decision-making.

We can take human feelings to be 'illogical,' but either way they're human responses that have to be understood and dealt with in an appropriate manner. I mean, telling somebody with a severe phobia that their phobia is illogical is not going to help them.

The point is that humans are not inanimate objects. There are a lot of things affecting humans at any given time and because you all are human (an assumption, I know), you've had to deal with it too. Feelings can be considered the logical result of responses to stimuli and brain chemistry, but the feelings themselves may not be logical. So no, feelings are not logical. But that does it matter? No.

 

[Athenian200]

But that does it matter? No.

It does matter whether a feeling is justified (not necessarily logically) or not, though. Feelings that are not justified should not be valued. Does that make sense?