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Thread: F---ing logics

  1. #41
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Correction.

    Individuals only construct personal justifications from various socialized constructions they have encountered in life (books, people, religion, media, etc).
    So there are no origional thinkers and never have been?

    and thus we can accept no resonsibility for our views, after all, they only exist because of this that or the other envrionmental constraint?

    We are capable of thinking out of the box or else no one would have invented the wheel!

  2. #42
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom View Post
    So there are no origional thinkers and never have been?
    We are talking about feeling here, not thinking. Original thoughts come from original experiences.

    and thus we can accept no resonsibility for our views, after all, they only exist because of this that or the other envrionmental constraint?
    Did you not read what I wrote? Individuals make personal justifications from the socialized constructions they encounter. Individuals are exposed to more than one socialized construction and thereby they are responsible for their views.

    Example: I have the same personality, and many of the same experiences as ByMySword, but I am more liberal minded and he is more conservative minded. We created different personal justifications.

    We are capable of thinking out of the box or else no one would have invented the wheel!
    The wheel was invented by somebody who had the original experience to get the idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    We are talking about feeling here, not thinking. Original thoughts come from original experiences.



    Did you not read what I wrote? Individuals make personal justifications from the social constructions they encounter. Individuals are exposed to more than one social construction and thereby they are responsible for their views.

    Example: I've have the same personality, and many of the same experiences as ByMySword, but I am more liberal minded and he is more conservative minded. We created different personal justifications.



    The wheel was invented by somebody who had the original experience to get the idea.
    ah i see... how silly of me...

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    F-ing logics... I mean feeling logics...

    Why do we consider feelings to be not logic? Or is it?

    Can feelings ever be logical?

    Discuss.
    "Feeling Logic"
    Sounds like the title of an independent artsy/romance film. Or a really cool novel. Now I want to write a novel to go with that title.

  5. #45
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I suppose you can view the internal world of a person as a system that follows a certain set of internal rules and assumptions. There is a great deal of nuance to any internal system, so it tends to be necessary to understand the entire system or certain aspects will appear random. This complex system will have cause and effect relationships to how it operates. If you learn that system and desire a particular outcome, then by using its inherent rules and assumptions, you can find the mostly likely path to achieve that outcome. That seems like a type of logic.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  6. #46
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I suppose you can view the internal world of a person as a system that follows a certain set of internal rules and assumptions. There is a great deal of nuance to any internal system, so it tends to be necessary to understand the entire system or certain aspects will appear random. This complex system will have cause and effect relationships to how it operates. If you learn that system and desire a particular outcome, then by using its inherent rules and assumptions, you can find the mostly likely path to achieve that outcome. That seems like a type of logic.
    If the internal world of the person is a system. Then feelings will be an emotional component of the system. However knowing how the system operates and getting a desirable outcome using these rules and assumptions is thinking... not feeling.

    For the feelers, they've learned a way of obtaining the desirable outcome and they recall to use it time and time again. They don't truly work out the logics behind it though. Merely blindly following a script because it's "right".

    An analogy would be how to operate an ATM... you know how to get money out of it... but you don't really know how it works nor how to make it do other things.

  7. #47
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom View Post
    how compasionate and accepting that people work differently to each other!

    Why do people still sepperate humans as though we are not part of nature, reality and all the rest of it?

    How on earth can 'the nature of how we as humans react to reality' not be 'part of the nature of reality'? of course it is!

    As for that template, yes it exists and is part of reality but it is created by humans in our soical concepts and constructed ideas, hence why canabilistic tribes didn't feel terrible emotions when eating humans as most europeans would.

    emotions are not constructs of an individual mind, they are physiology. What is justified or not is constructed by you.
    Perhaps you don't get what I'm saying... I admit I didn't say it very well.

    I disagree with people who claim that emotions are part of the nature of reality itself, outside of human beings. If emotions are part of our physiology, then they are still only part of humanity. They are something we have to consider because we indeed live with other people who experience emotions, but I believe that emotions themselves do not exist independently of the human beings who feel them. I'm saying that I believe the universe itself is the result not of will and emotion, but of rules and systems that work in a particular way, without regard to what people feel. So shouldn't our feelings take their cues from the nature of reality rather than their own nature, in order to be more likely oriented towards something real?

    Does that make sense?

    Now, back to the other topic... "right" or "wrong" emotions. Perhaps I simply confuse emotions with values, which can be right or wrong. I propose that feeling types filter their emotions based on values, just as thinking types filter them based on logic. In other words, feelings are common and easily accessible to both types. The only reason feeling types are more attuned to their emotions is because values are more in tune with emotions than logic would be, but there is still conflict. Values are based on balancing emotions and deciding which have the most meaning to that individual. If a person simply acted on every emotion they experienced, that wouldn't do.

    An FJ might well decide that the most important values are those that lead to the well-being of the people around them, and weight their emotions according to that. An FP might decide that the most important values are the ones that give the most inner satisfaction to themselves, and weight them according to that.

    In other words, people feel similar emotions, but MBTI can hint which type of scale they use to weigh them on.

  8. #48
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    Playing with an idea:

    Feelings occur naturally, by which I mean, one cannot control one's feelings.
    Nature is composed of cause and effect--in other words, logical.
    Thus, feelings are logical.
    I agree. You can't stop a feeling. How you react to them is what's rational or not.

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