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Thread: F---ing logics

  1. #31
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    So in reading this thread, I am curious: how would you guys define a justifiable emotion? If someone's brain chemistry is screwed up and thus they are affected with severe depression, is this emotion justifiable, or just an extreme version of exactly what happens when, say, you cat gets run over, just due to a different stimulus?

  2. #32
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    I don't believe emotions can be "justifiable". To me, they just exists as natural built-in responses that helps survival. So if somebody has abnormal responses in their neurons, all that means is that the inputs are faulty... (the interpretation/judgment process can also be affected in depression) but assuming those are okay decisions will still be "logical", they might not seem rational to you and I though because they're not getting correct inputs.

    Edit: The rest of them probably do not agree with me though.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    I don't believe emotions can be "justifiable". To me, they just exists as natural built-in responses that helps survival. So if somebody has abnormal responses in their neurons, all that means is that the inputs are faulty... (the interpretation/judgment process can also be affected in depression) but assuming those are okay decisions will still be "logical", they might not seem rational to you and I though because they're not getting correct inputs.

    Edit: The rest of them probably do not agree with me though.
    But there is a way of emotional functioning that's considered correct, isn't there?

    For instance, if I feel angry towards someone who stole something from me, that's somewhat justified. If I feel angry towards someone because they blinked, that would a problem... you see?

    Or, to take it further... suppose you think someone did something to you, and you get angry with them. This would be normal. If you find out they didn't do what you thought they did, you'd normally stop feeling angry with them. If you continued to feel angry with them even though you know they didn't do anything, that wouldn't be justified. Some feelings are justified and should be valued, some feelings are not justified and should be dismissed.

    Do you see what I mean?

  4. #34
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Athenian... I think you're defining emotions as "justifiable" post hoc. Yes, there are cases where I get angry at someone. Sometimes you can call it "reasonable"... and other times it's "unreasonable". But the emotional system for us was developed way back evolutionary wise... Back then, all emotions are beneficial to our survival.

    Our society has changed, and thus affecting our thoughts on emotions. Such as our attempts to categorize emotions as appropriate and inappropriate when emotions just are. Neither appropriate nor inappropriate. They're merely natural responses without thought.

    I do believe though that there's a difference between experiencing emotions and acting out on them. So judgment should be placed on the latter... that is your behavior after cognitive processing of your emotions. Because feelings are irrational, but your actions should be controlled.

    So it all depends on the way you perceive emotions doesn't it?

  5. #35
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Emotions are neither justified or not. They simply are.

    Your response is what can be justified or not, attacking the guy you thouht stole from you even when you found out they didn't is unjustifable. Feeling angry still, is probably normal for a while anyway....

  6. #36
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Our society has changed, and thus affecting our thoughts on emotions. Such as our attempts to categorize emotions as appropriate and inappropriate when emotions just are. Neither appropriate nor inappropriate. They're merely natural responses without thought.
    I just don't like that very much. I don't think it has a right to "just be." I don't think emotions are part of the nature of reality, I think they're just the nature of how we as humans react to reality.

    I still think some emotions are wrong, and others are right. People who feel the wrong ones disgust me, and I sympathize with those who feel the right ones.

    I'm pretty sure there's a particular emotional template we're all aware of that gives a rough idea of how a typical human being would react, and I think that people who react too far outside of this are feeling the "wrong" emotion, possibly because of a neurological glitch. Does that make sense?

  7. #37
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I just don't like that very much. I don't think it has a right to "just be." I don't think emotions are part of the nature of reality, I think they're just the nature of how we as humans react to reality.

    I still think some emotions are wrong, and others are right. People who feel the wrong ones disgust me, and I sympathize with those who feel the right ones.

    I'm pretty sure there's a particular emotional template we're all aware of that gives a rough idea of how a typical human being would react, and I think that people who react too far outside of this are feeling the "wrong" emotion. Does that make sense?
    how compasionate and accepting that people work differently to each other!

    Why do people still sepperate humans as though we are not part of nature, reality and all the rest of it?

    How on earth can 'the nature of how we as humans react to reality' not be 'part of the nature of reality'? of course it is!

    As for that template, yes it exists and is part of reality but it is created by humans in our soical concepts and constructed ideas, hence why canabilistic tribes didn't feel terrible emotions when eating humans as most europeans would.

    emotions are not constructs of an individual mind, they are physiology. What is justified or not is constructed by you.

  8. #38
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I just don't like that very much. I don't think it has a right to "just be." I don't think emotions are part of the nature of reality, I think they're just the nature of how we as humans react to reality.

    I still think some emotions are wrong, and others are right. People who feel the wrong ones disgust me, and I sympathize with those who feel the right ones.
    That is your Fe speaking. If you take a step back and think about emotional responses, you will see that they're composed of very simple and basic physiological responses.

    6 basic emotions:
    Happiness
    Sadness
    Fear
    Surprise
    Anger
    Disgust

    Each of these are associated with particular physiological states and facial expressions. And these are displayed unconsciously. So even if you try to suppress them, they leak out as "microexpressions". Other emotions are simply some combination of these 6.

    I'm pretty sure there's a particular emotional template we're all aware of that gives a rough idea of how a typical human being would react, and I think that people who react too far outside of this are feeling the "wrong" emotion, possibly because of a neurological glitch. Does that make sense?
    The emotional templates do exist... they're encoded in your genes. That's how people recognize those 6 basic emotions despite differences in culture and social learning. However, these expressions only indicate the emotional state you're experiencing. In essence we're predicting behavior based on what emotional signals are displayed on other people's faces. Like animals' dominant and submissive postures, they help in ensuring survival. But there's never direct encodings for proper behavior. All that is learnt socially. Much like a dog would has grown up with people and was sudden allowed to interact with other dogs. It starts being territorial and barks.

    People aren't that different from other animals... it's good to keep that in mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom View Post
    As for that template, yes it exists and is part of reality but it is created by humans in our soical concepts and constructed ideas, hence why canabilistic tribes didn't feel terrible emotions when eating humans as most europeans would.

    emotions are not constructs of an individual mind, they are physiology. What is justified or not is constructed by you.
    Well said.

  9. #39
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    I feel logical today.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom View Post
    emotions are not constructs of an individual mind, they are physiology. What is justified or not is socialized into you.
    Correction.

    Individuals only construct personal justifications from various socialized constructions they have encountered in life (books, people, religion, media, etc).

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I'm pretty sure there's a particular emotional template we're all aware of that gives a rough idea of how a typical human being would react, and I think that people who react too far outside of this are feeling the "wrong" emotion, possibly because of a neurological glitch. Does that make sense?
    Read up on socialization.

    Socialization: the process whereby individuals are made aware of the behaviour that others expect of them in regards to the norms, values, and culture.

    Example: There are people who feel disgust for homosexuals, whereas I feel disgust for people who are disgusted by homosexuals. Who is right? Or is it more likely that we have just had different experiences that lead us to feel differently?
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

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