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  1. #61
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intricate Mystic View Post
    they don't have our ability to engage in moral reasoning. Also, human thinking may involve cognitive errors but unlike computers, we are alive.
    Why would computers/transhumans necessarily not be capable of moral reasoning? I think one day moral machines may be much more ethical than human beings have the capacity to be. Also, I'm really curious as to what kind of morality would originate under alternative biochemistries. I'm curious as to whether the feelings we have under the influence of oxytocin and serotonin could be reproduced/approximated under alternative chemistries. In computers I would imagine it'd just be a matter of reproducing the mathematical relationships (if possible).

  2. #62
    Just a statistic rhinosaur's Avatar
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    For this question to really make sense you have to define exactly what "transhuman" means. The line is very very blurry.

    Does wearing glasses make you transhuman?
    What about a hearing aid?
    A bluetooth headset?
    An automobile console that can access GPS, systems information, the internet, etc.?
    Artificial limbs?
    Pacemakers?
    Hormones (e.g. birth control, androgens)?
    Surgical corrections to hearing, vision, etc. including Cochlear implants and LASIK?
    Surgical enhancements to hearing, vision, etc. that improve your abilities beyond what is normal?
    Brain-enhancing drugs (e.g. memory supplements, mood-altering drugs, sleep enhancers)?

    To answer the question, I don't think I would hesitate to use any trans-human devices. The only areas of concern I can think of are 1) efficacy and 2) price.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intricate Mystic View Post
    If I could swap my current physical self for an exact biological copy that included the neurons and neuronal connections containing all of my current memories and knowledge I might go for that. However, the change would have to include retaining my soul in the new body. If you're talking about an artificial body that mimics these functions, I have doubts that a man-made copy would be a flawless replica of the real thing.
    Interesting... what if one could actually use this technology to answer the question of a soul - or freewill in general for that matter... using this kind of technology? This might sound off but bare with me:

    Let's say we find a none-destructive way to do it - an FMRI resolution so deep it gets every piece of the network. we then use a real life augmentation to scan everything coming into your brain - every biochemical release, every hormone and protein, every nerve and every piece of sensory information, from the moment you wake up from the scanning table... and we then transmit all that data to the uploaded you, to experience the exact same thing.

    After a few months, perhaps years, we scan you again and compare it:

    since as far as she perceived the world her body was doing what you were doing, if she experienced doing things that she didn't want to do or not doing things that she wanted to do, she would almost certainly would have internal reactions to it, she would felt and thought things that you didn't - both in the reaction to her inability to control her actions and in what lead her to choose differently from you in the first place, and it would leave its fingerprint and show up in the scan.

    but if she didn't, if your brain scans where still identical, that would mean you still made all the same choices and internal experiences along the way, and that whatever where the possible metaphysical differences between you two, they didn't actually matter.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    Why would computers/transhumans necessarily not be capable of moral reasoning? I think one day moral machines may be much more ethical than human beings have the capacity to be. Also, I'm really curious as to what kind of morality would originate under alternative biochemistries. I'm curious as to whether the feelings we have under the influence of oxytocin and serotonin could be reproduced/approximated under alternative chemistries. In computers I would imagine it'd just be a matter of reproducing the mathematical relationships (if possible).
    well, one could argue that without indevidual mortality, when everything of value can be reproduced as many times as needed or at the very least find a recent backup, the only harm that would be concieved is lost time and memories... pretty much develop a morality where the only crime is vandalism.

  5. #65
    Dependable Skeleton Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    No difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    ..how is that different from real life?
    Everyone else would think that the person running around in my body is me. And for all intents and purposes, it would be me. Except for the fact that Me Prime is dead. And only Me 1, who thinks he's alive, is still alive. So I'm dead, and a facsimile of me lives on, a facsimile that I cannot interact with or receive data from at all. I am dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    ok, but in this case you'd still be uploaded to a computer and then downloaded into a new body, so, wat if we take out the "new adult body in 10 minutes" factor out of sci-fi, and replace it with the kind of cloning we have in real life - the one where it actually takes 30 years to grow your 30 year old body - would you then choose to just stay inactive for a couple of decades or would you choose to function as an "uploaded mind" to whatever extent you can?
    I still probably wouldn't do the whole upload thing, personally. I'd be too used to having a corporeal form that I'd go bonkers just hanging around in a server for 30 years. I enjoy the sensations of being alive, mortal, and incarnated. If I was forced to upload, maybe I'd just go on standby. But imagine the consequences of that... everyone you ever knew and loved would be dead once you got your new clone body. ...or maybe not, if they uploaded too... Damn, this thread is really interesting.
    But that "uploaded mind" concept has really given me an interesting idea for something I was writing... so thanks!
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  6. #66
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engineer View Post
    Everyone else would think that the person running around in my body is me. And for all intents and purposes, it would be me. Except for the fact that Me Prime is dead. And only Me 1, who thinks he's alive, is still alive. So I'm dead, and a facsimile of me lives on, a facsimile that I cannot interact with or receive data from at all. I am dead.
    You've had conversations with Legion, I'm sure. What would he say? The platform is irrelevant, what you "are" is the pattern, the program.



  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engineer View Post
    Everyone else would think that the person running around in my body is me. And for all intents and purposes, it would be me. Except for the fact that Me Prime is dead. And only Me 1, who thinks he's alive, is still alive.
    see, its already is the case, little by little every day, and its called...
    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxrq6AX45bo"]the circle of poop[/YOUTUBE]

    Quote Originally Posted by Engineer View Post
    But that "uploaded mind" concept has really given me an interesting idea for something I was writing... so thanks!
    you welcome.

  8. #68
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post

    if we have the scanning technology to put those on a new robotic body, why not just have it displayed on.. well, glasses or anything else for that matter?
    Hman bodies (especially mine) tend to have flaws and break down in strange ways. I would be delighted to be rid of the silly flesh and goo that transports my brain around and trade it out for something a bit more reliable.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    You've had conversations with Legion, I'm sure. What would he say? The platform is irrelevant, what you "are" is the pattern, the program.
    But Legion was digital to begin with... He was synthetic, he was created to operate over multiple platforms. I'm just unsure of how that would work with a human being.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Hman bodies (especially mine) tend to have flaws and break down in strange ways. I would be delighted to be rid of the silly flesh and goo that transports my brain around and trade it out for something a bit more reliable.
    rule of thumbs - if a product of sufficent complexity survives the warrenty period, someone in the factory screwed up. get what i'm saying?

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