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  1. #31
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    I wish I were always so virtuous.

    Back in middle school/high school, I used to fabricate stories to get people to like and accept me--my sense of shame was higher than that of my self-worth, and I didn't think anyone actually accepted me for who I actually was. (It turned out that many did and that I didn't realize/internalize it--but that's another story.)

    I eventually reached the conclusion that lying about such things is a short-term fix and that I ought to pursue long-term fixes. It's a lot more comfortable (and a lot less mentally jarring) to be able to face the world with a single persona whose experiences, deeds, virtues, values, and stories are actually aligned. In addition, it just feels to me to be the right thing to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I think the world would be a fantastic place if people learned not only to tell the truth, but become more accepting of different people's perception as well.
    Man, this exactly. I'd say that the more people 'come out of the closet' on various issues, the more we'll all see that 'normal' (functional, etc.) people have plenty 'wrong' with them--which makes those 'wrong' things seem less detrimental or scary, which would in turn reduce the social stigmas that keep these traits hidden, which would in turn enable more people to 'come out of the closet,' and so on and so forth.

  2. #32
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nales View Post
    The problem is that, when asked about lies, people only think about the "evil, selfish lie that will give me an advantage over the other person". But this kind of lie is incredibly uncommon when compared to the "white lie that avoids conflict and pleases the other person on the moment".
    I hear plenty of this, including the examples offered earlier of people saying yes to things they don't honestly want to do. I still find it very hard to lie, though, even in these situations. Either I find a way to avoid conflict and please the other person without lying, or perhaps achieving these results is not a priority to me. Many conflicts need to be faced, not avoided, and that is best done with honesty. On the other hand, I can't imagine someone being offended when told, "I don't like to do that, but I'll do it for you because you are my friend, and I know it is important to you." I would considier it an indication of the strength of that friendship.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #33
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Generally no. Being truthful is very important to me.
    There have been occaisions where i have lied but usually the guilt overpowered me and i made confessions, except in cases where it would be harmful to do so.
    I have withheld truths, which i suppose is a form of deception but always in the interest of the person/s involved. But it still dosn't sit right with me so i'd often build up to introducing the "truth".
    I'll give a lame example....
    Mike Smith has issues with certain colours (He dosn't know why, he just does...he might want to get help with this at some future date and i'll prob be there singing the rainbow song), green inducing the most negative reaction in him of them all. Green happens to be my favourite colour but Mike has made many negative comments about the way he interacts with green.
    I do not tell Mike it's my favourite colour, i infact make sure i do not wear my green items of clothing when i see Mike.
    I also avoid talking about it. I will tell Mike, when i am ready, when i am sure he is also ready.

    Am i lying to Mike?

    *...pft was going to edit...but meh
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  4. #34
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    Smile Come lie with me

    I want you to tell me beautiful lies.

    I want you to lie to save my feelings or save my life.

    I want you to tell me that not only is all art a lie, but all religion is a lie as well.

    I want you to fake it till you make it.

    And always remember, the biggger the lie, the easier it is to believe.

    And even our senses lie to us and tell us the Sun goes round the Earth, but tis a lie.

    So come lie with me.

    WHEN my love swears that she is made of truth,
    I do believe her, though I know she lies,
    That she might think me some untutor'd youth,
    Unskilful in the world's false forgeries.
    Thus vainly thinking that she thinks me young,
    Although I know my years be past the best,
    I smiling credit her false-speaking tongue,
    Outfacing faults in love with love's ill rest.
    But wherefore says my love that she is young?
    And wherefore say not I that I am old?
    O, love's best habit is a soothing tongue,
    And age, in love, loves not to have years told.
    Therefore I'll lie with love, and love with me,
    Since that our faults in love thus smother'd be.

  5. #35
    I'm not Trunks
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    I like to tell the truth, but people get offended easily.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trunks View Post
    I like to tell the truth, but people get offended easily.
    We get offended easily because the electronic media has put our central nervous system on the outside, so we are sensitive to the slightest touch.

    Unfortunately literacy has privileged the eye, and let our tactile sense go begging.

  7. #37
    I'm not Trunks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    We get offended easily because the electronic media has put our central nervous system on the outside, so we are sensitive to the slightest touch.

    Unfortunately literacy has privileged the eye, and let our tactile sense go begging.
    I never get offend easily. Why would I care about the things like that?

  8. #38

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    When discussing lying in the way this thread has so far, I'm guessing (maybe assuming) that by "lying" people mean malicious and intentional lying, not, as some have mentioned, well-intentioned or non-malicious lying. But that begs the question "is all lying malicious?" And that I don't know. As usual with moral questions, only the extreme situations seem obvious. Someone tells you "if you think I've gained weight I'm going to kill myself." Most people would say the "right thing" in that case, but those situations don't really tell us anything apart from the fact that cases may exist where lying appears to be the right thing to do. So little of our day to day conversation and interaction carries such weight. And so in those cases white lies really don't matter all that much and telling the truth is a relatively easy thing to do. Someone asks me "does my dress look nice?" and if I actually have no opinion nor even care in the slightest what their dress looks like (which is usually the case) I'll still say something supportive such as "yes, I like the color" or "the length suits you." In that situation telling the person that I don't care or that I don't like the dress doesn't really carry any significance for either of us, so telling the truth in that case just seems pointless and potentially reckless. If the person was going to a job interview, however, and wanted to know, I would answer with far more detail. Of course, we don't always know why people ask us this or that question (some people like to "test" others randomly), so this is where a careless answer can get us into trouble. The particulars around a situation really seem to dictate whether or not a "lie" is wrong or not. It's far more complicated than "telling a lie in any circumstance is always wrong." "Never say never," as the cliché goes, because you may one day face that extreme event (hopefully you won't) where a lie is the only way out of a situation. The polymorphic nature of reality really makes it hard to know any definitive answers to such questions. But, as said, in our daily lives the issues are usually not significant enough to even evoke these deeper questions about truth and lying.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trunks View Post
    I never get offend easily. Why would I care about the things like that?
    Of course you are a unique individual and a highly literate individual, so why should you care about 'we'?

    So we of the electronic tribes wear our central nervous system on the outside, and so feel the slightest touch, and are easily offended, while you, wearing your central nervous system on the inside, are oblivious to touch, and have no need to care about things like that.

  10. #40
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewomack View Post
    When discussing lying in the way this thread has so far, I'm guessing (maybe assuming) that by "lying" people mean malicious and intentional lying, not, as some have mentioned, well-intentioned or non-malicious lying. But that begs the question "is all lying malicious?" And that I don't know. As usual with moral questions, only the extreme situations seem obvious. Someone tells you "if you think I've gained weight I'm going to kill myself." Most people would say the "right thing" in that case, but those situations don't really tell us anything apart from the fact that cases may exist where lying appears to be the right thing to do. So little of our day to day conversation and interaction carries such weight. And so in those cases white lies really don't matter all that much and telling the truth is a relatively easy thing to do. Someone asks me "does my dress look nice?" and if I actually have no opinion nor even care in the slightest what their dress looks like (which is usually the case) I'll still say something supportive such as "yes, I like the color" or "the length suits you." In that situation telling the person that I don't care or that I don't like the dress doesn't really carry any significance for either of us, so telling the truth in that case just seems pointless and potentially reckless. If the person was going to a job interview, however, and wanted to know, I would answer with far more detail. Of course, we don't always know why people ask us this or that question (some people like to "test" others randomly), so this is where a careless answer can get us into trouble. The particulars around a situation really seem to dictate whether or not a "lie" is wrong or not. It's far more complicated than "telling a lie in any circumstance is always wrong." "Never say never," as the cliché goes, because you may one day face that extreme event (hopefully you won't) where a lie is the only way out of a situation. The polymorphic nature of reality really makes it hard to know any definitive answers to such questions. But, as said, in our daily lives the issues are usually not significant enough to even evoke these deeper questions about truth and lying.
    Yes, all lies are not made with the same intent, nor result in the same consequences. The word "lie" is still useful in the more general sense of meaning a statement known to be untrue. Moreover, some of us (myself included) are simply uncomfortable lying, even in these innocent, socially inviting situations. I refrain from lying not so much because of any external consequences, like doing harm, being found out, or being considered dishonest; but rather because of how it makes me feel inside. I feel fake, phony, especially when telling those "little white lies" to meet expectations, or to make the other person feel good.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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