User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 33

  1. #11
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Care to elaborate? What are the main attachment styles? What are the main attachment disorders? What're the consequences for either for an individual?

    What happens? I'm not exactly clear, what is it that's happening which is resulting in harm and permitting someone to "get bit more control over the kids"?
    I dont really care if you dont think im qualified to see that this shit is wrong. Cba to translate the course for you because, well i dunno why you even ask that.

    Why dont you explain those things to people who are unaware of them and explain through those things why you think this is better therapy than some others that are commonly used?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  2. #12
    curiouser and curiouser bluestripes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    MBTI
    Fi
    Enneagram
    4
    Posts
    197

    Default

    there is no name for this. "child abuse" is not an adequate definition because it is just two words strung together, nothing more.

    i started to read some of the stories by the people who had gone through this and i felt i was going to vomit. then i started reading about candace newmaker and i regretted checking this out altogether.

    @Lark:

    i have no intention to argue about any of this, but there is one fact that cannot be disputed: children like candace are DEAD. this is not a myth; it is all too real and, what is worst, it is irreversible. even if this happened in another setting - for example, if a patient died in restraints at a regular psychiatric facility - it would raise some valid issues about malpractice or possible patient abuse. in cases such as this, the issues escalate tenfold.

    i don't think any of this is about anti-psychiatry or any other ideological matters, or at any rate it should not be. it is about some people having PTSD, major depression or worse and others being dead.

    besides, i don't think that the author of the original post was talking about situations where a pediatric patient has to be restrained by necessity because they are a danger to themselves or to others. that is the whole point. this is about physical restraint being applied even when it is not required, simply because it is part of the therapeutic practice (i suppose i should have put this in inverted commas). which can never be justified. ever. even if the patient is not killed as a result. also, if a patient is repeatedly denied basic necessities such as water despite begging for it or is forced to lie in their own vomit and excrement, or if their breathing is obstructed on purpose (as in someone taking a pillow, placing it over their face and sitting on top), it is gross malpractice regardless of where or under what circumstances it takes place. this is putting it really really mildly.

    THIS is the issue. not anyone's theoretical definitions of what disorders are or how they ought to be treated. it is ultimately irrelevant where this even happened, or which branch of psychiatry or psychotherapy the doctor in question belonged to, because this MUST NOT BE no matter what theoretical framework is being used.

    and homicide/manslaughter is homicide/manslaughter is homicide/manslaughter.
    "i love deadlines. i like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by." (c) douglas adams

    "there are only two ways to live your life. one is as though nothing is a miracle. the other is as though everything is a miracle." (c) albert einstein

    "if only i could grow with my eyes - like these leaves - into the depth" (c) sergei esenin

    "god is in the details" (c) proverb

  3. #13
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 so/sp
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    2,484

    Default

    This isn't about attachment theory, even if it's trying to use that name. It's about a practice where kids are literally getting the life crushed out of them.

    I'd like to add another warning for those links.... it's deeply disturbing stuff, to put it mildly.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Elisius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    2w1 so/sx
    Posts
    157

    Default

    @Lark
    Attachment therapy and Attachment-Theory are different things.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_therapy

    This is child abuse, I don't see how it could possibly help anyone to be held down and screamed at.

  5. #15
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    6,747

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm sorry, did you follow the same links as me?

    I followed the first one and like I said it wasnt clear at all what was being discussed, I think I've seen some content similar to that in the first YouTube video on training as an example of what is not an appropriate way to restrain a child, for a number of reasons, constriction, speaking to the child during the restraint etc.

    Credentialism and expertise are contentious issues maybe and they do not place people above suspiscion or question automatically, I'd hate to operate in a world where it where so easy to fool people, on the other hand maternal deprivation, neglect, emotional abuse and cruelty occasioning trauma are all terrible things with real consequences, usually challenging behaviour which can escalate easily towards violence and bullying. Often these sorts of interventions are needed by professionals working in local authority care facilities when the children have been made wards of the state or court orders are in place.

    The alternative would be to leave a child who is acting out violently with parents who may have little recourse to any means of managing it other than violence themselves, maybe escalating to a level where peoples welfare is seriously jeopardised, for instance they could be killed.
    I glazed over that first link and linked to a few others where children died, and also the court case one where they did the "rebirthing" and suffocated the kid by sitting on her and verbally assaulting her. Yeah, it's sad that it happens, but it doesn't say much at all about who the "therapists" were- just saying that it was "attachment therapy." Anyone can abuse and kill a kid and call themselves and the method whatever they want.

    Regarding restraints, I didn't comment- I know they are necessary sometimes in very controlled settings, I'm not against them.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bluestripes View Post
    there is no name for this. "child abuse" is not an adequate definition because it is just two words strung together, nothing more.
    i have no intention to argue about any of this
    Yet you proceed to, with quite a bit of hand wringing and emoting.

    Look if you want to discuss this issue, the use of restraint, of necessity, in therapeutic facilities with children then I'm open to dialogue and discussion.

    If you're going to pretend that its common practice that children are being physically restricted in their extrement and vomit, unable to draw breath and then dying as a consequence and raise a hue and cry about that then go ahead. Whatever floats your boat.

  7. #17
    curiouser and curiouser bluestripes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    MBTI
    Fi
    Enneagram
    4
    Posts
    197

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    If you're going to pretend that its common practice that children are being physically restricted in their extrement and vomit, unable to draw breath and then dying as a consequence and raise a hue and cry about that then go ahead.
    where did i say that?

    but the uncommon situations where this is being done do have to be stopped. last time i checked, this was the idea.
    "i love deadlines. i like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by." (c) douglas adams

    "there are only two ways to live your life. one is as though nothing is a miracle. the other is as though everything is a miracle." (c) albert einstein

    "if only i could grow with my eyes - like these leaves - into the depth" (c) sergei esenin

    "god is in the details" (c) proverb

  8. #18
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    I glazed over that first link and linked to a few others where children died, and also the court case one where they did the "rebirthing" and suffocated the kid by sitting on her and verbally assaulting her. Yeah, it's sad that it happens, but it doesn't say much at all about who the "therapists" were- just saying that it was "attachment therapy." Anyone can abuse and kill a kid and call themselves and the method whatever they want.

    Regarding restraints, I didn't comment- I know they are necessary sometimes in very controlled settings, I'm not against them.
    This is all becoming a little confusing, you mention that you glazed over when reading the first link's content and then just selected a couple of youtube clips of children suffering and dying to accompany it?

    I'm already unhappy about how attachment theory and therapies associated with it appear to be mixed up with this "attachment therapy" which is something like what I've never encountered if I'm honest, the rebirthing therapies with the risk of suffocation are old, old as Reich and his Bio-energic and Eroticised Freudianism and I dont know anyone who seriously practices with that knowledge base, certainly not within the mainstream or statutory/local authority facilities.

    It sounds to me like this was an unfortunate attempt to court controversy for a thread, that's not a good thing, people are already too credulous and ideas have consequences.

    It would be a little like linking content about primal scream therapy and suggesting if you vote Obama's health reforms through you're obviously a fan.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bluestripes View Post
    where did i say that?

    but the uncommon situations where this is being done do have to be stopped. last time i checked, this was the idea.
    It wasnt implicit in your post? I mean you obviously felt it worth mentioning, also that it was an undisputed/undisputable as though I would dispute it. Anyway, I think I've said my piece on this topic.

  10. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bluestripes View Post
    where did i say that?

    but the uncommon situations where this is being done do have to be stopped. last time i checked, this was the idea.
    Thankyou... This was the entire point of the thread, to simply bring awareness to this specific practice.

    I did consider starting a thread about attachment disorders, which would have covered everything including therapy, but I only wanted to address the atrocious malpractice [in this area], not attachment therapy or theory in and of itself.

    Lark, I think you jumped the gun a bit but never the less you are right that not all attachment therapy is like this, and I was aware of that. I've been incredibly relieved to find out that there are plenty of positive methods that have been devised over the years to heal and understand children with attachment disorder and behavioral problems. There has clearly been progress made in this area, and I am not denying that, it was simply disregarded because it isn't the point.
    Edit: I do appreciate your original post and the clarifications you provided. I wasn't trying to condemn attachment therapy or theory or whatever you are defending, but those particular atrocities that just so happened to be performed in the name of. Perhaps it was my responsibility to make everything in relation to the content
    available and clear so as to avoid leaving people with a narrow perspective of attachment disorder and it therapies. I apologize for not realizing that during the original post, but that is because this thread was not particularly about attachment therapy/theory.



    Of all the adults who have helped to put children through these experiences, I know of 4 having gone to court, and 2 actually imprisoned. 1 served half their sentence and got out on appeal.
    I've looked up all the people who partook in Candace's murder, and 3 of 4 of her murderers are walking free.

    This is gross GROSS injustice, and it is important that it is addressed.

    This goes more into depth about Candace's case and the convictions of her abusers:
    http://www.childrenintherapy.org/victims/newmaker.html



    Some of these people ARE just sadistic and simply use what they've called "therapy" as an excuse to torture. Even if some are NOT motivated to harm, or actually think they are doing the right things, they are still motivated to make money and a living out of these disgustingly corrupt (to put it fkn mildly) practices... The parents of the children are too vulnerable, desperate or self righteous to know of better, they too are victims in many cases, even if they take on the role of an oppressor.

    These practices have been kept alive, parents are even being provided with the information they need to learn how to administer the treatments themselves in their own homes. They can get it online quite easily. This has nothing to do with outlandish claims of satanism or cults. This is about every day people under so much pressure that they will try anything.

Similar Threads

  1. Why president has to be good and moral person ?
    By Virtual ghost in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 06-11-2016, 09:01 PM
  2. there has to be a better alternative!
    By miss fortune in forum Health and Fitness
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 04-11-2012, 11:26 AM
  3. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 02-24-2011, 12:18 AM
  4. Who else has to be up early tomorrow morning?
    By raz in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 12-01-2008, 04:06 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO