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Thread: Socionics and hidden agendas

  1. #1
    Fe, rusted. Array Poser's Avatar
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    Default Socionics and hidden agendas

    I found this recently and couldn't find it discussed here.

    Every person has a hidden agenda. This agenda often governs one's intentions and behaviour. People are often unaware of its origin, but can always feel its significance. Some people are more affected by it than other people. Every type requires an optimal condition in which it can function properly. If such condition does not exist, a person will normally attempt to create it. However, due to the nature of the hidden agenda, if and when the optimal condition is reached, the person will occasionally put themselves in a situation where the stability of this condition is threatened.

    There are eight such agendas/optimal conditions:


    ENTp, ESTp => to be loved
    INTj, INFj => to be healthy
    ESFj, ESTj => to be perfect
    ISFp, INFp => to understand
    ENFj, ENTj => to be wealthy
    ISTj, ISFj => to believe
    ESFp, ENFp => to know
    INTp, ISTp => to love
    I know socionics is a little bit different than MBTI but I would have to say of the types that I know, it is pretty much spot on. What say you?

    Type and the hidden agenda


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    Interesting...
    I identify with all the hidden agendas listed, and I don't think I hide those agendas all that well either.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Interesting...
    I identify with all the hidden agendas listed, and I don't think I hide those agendas all that well either.
    Yeah, not like any of them are negative.


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    The Destroyer Array Colors's Avatar
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    They are mostly fairly vague and universal, but without looking at the types:

    Most true: to understand (ISFp, INFp), to be loved (ENTp, ESTp), to know (ESFp, ENFp)
    Moderately true: to love (INTp, ISTp), to be healthy (INTj, INFj)
    Occasionally true: to be perfect (ESFj, ESTj), to be wealthy (ENFj, ENTj)
    Huh?: to believe (ISTj, ISFj)

    Don't seem particularly accurate/ spot on to anyone I know (but of course these goals are fairly broad, and most people have more than one and not desperate for only one, which would make the description spot on), but perhaps I don't know enough about socionics to judge.

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    Senior Member Array matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colors View Post
    They are mostly fairly vague and universal...Don't seem particularly accurate/ spot on to anyone I know (but of course these goals are fairly broad...
    An example of the Forer Effect [www.skepdic.com/forer.html] perhaps?

    I've found these hidden agendas accurate, for some reason. I don't know why. I'd love someone to disprove them.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array snegledmaca's Avatar
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    In socionics terms these can be rewritten as this:

    ENTp, ESTp => to be loved => a subconscious need for Fe
    INTj, INFj => to be healthy => a subconscious need for Si
    ESFj, ESTj => to be perfect => a subconscious need for Ne
    ISFp, INFp => to understand => a subconscious need for Ti
    ENFj, ENTj => to be wealthy => a subconscious need for Se
    ISTj, ISFj => to believe => a subconscious need for Ni
    ESFp, ENFp => to know => a subconscious need for Te
    INTp, ISTp => to love => a subconscious need for Fi

    Here is some more information on this:
    Sergei Ganin - Wikisocion

    Personally I've come think of them as unnecessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca View Post

    Personally I've come think of them as unnecessary.
    Thanks for the information! That is really cool to tie that with functions but how did you come up with those?
    1) how did you come up with for example "to be wealthy => a subconscious need for Se"
    2) how are the mobilizing functions (hidden agendas) related to type and the other functions?

    Also, when you said you have come to think of them as unnecessary, how so?


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    Senior Member Array snegledmaca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BryNTP View Post
    Thanks for the information! That is really cool to tie that with functions but how did you come up with those?
    1) how did you come up with for example "to be wealthy => a subconscious need for Se"
    2) how are the mobilizing functions (hidden agendas) related to type and the other functions?

    Also, when you said you have come to think of them as unnecessary, how so?
    Well I did not come up with anything. Se is the mobilizing function for EIE-s (ENFj) and LIE-s (ENTj) according to the model A. Sergei Ganin interprets manifestation of ones mobilizing function in terms of the concept of the hidden agenda fixation.

    Regarding my stance on it, I agree with the concept of the existence of such agendas, but I don't think that aspect of ones personality is relevant to the level he seems to be implying. In normal individuals that is. I'd say when such clear agendas, clear enough to be picked up on by others, are present a person has a problem.

    Now, why each motivation is attributed to each function, that's a little more complicated. To take your example, why would a need for Se be associated with a need to be wealthy.

    In socionics Se is the element that deals with object volatility. You can learn more about how socionics treats Se, and other elements, here (For Se look for the little black circle):

    Notes on "The Socion, or Socionics Basics" -- pg. 2
    Information element - Wikisocion
    Notes on "The Semantics of the Information Elements"

    Basically because Se deals with objects, the concrete reality, it deals with the aspects of territory and possession. The types EIE (ENFj) and LIE (ENTj) wish to have Se themselves and this manifest in a need for possession and territory.

    If you would like I could make an explanation for each of the agendas.

    And why this is so is in the model A, you can find information about it here:

    Model A - Wikisocion
    The Socionist: The Psyche and Reality: Augusta's Understanding
    The Socionist: Model A
    Blocks of socionic model of psyche
    Socionic Model of the Psyche

    Also you might find this interesting, it's a description of "the pathetic hidden agenda", or, the not so positive example of the hidden agenda fixation:

    The pathetic hidden agenda - The16types.info

    ENTp, ESTp : behavior aimed at showing how popular and liked by the crowd you are, but that is actually making you look like an ass.

    INFp, ISFp : unshakeable and stubborn defense of ideas and beliefs against all opposition, with unwillingness to even discuss the possibility of their not being correct

    INTp, ISTp : unshakeable and stubborn unwillingness to compromise on personal behavior and principles against all opposition in a social situation

    ESFp, ENFp : behavior aimed at showing how competent you are in handling practical and financial affairs, or in how much knowledge in a particular subject you have, but painfully focusing on non-essentials to the point made

    ISTj, ISFj : unshakeable belief that you know exactly what is going to happen in your life in a given situation, or precipitated action since you know that "now is the time to act", but ending up shooting your own foot in both cases

    ENTj, ENFj : behavior aimed at showing how successful, rich, or physically strong and brave and confrontational you are, when others can see you're none of them

    INTj, INFj : showing off how wiser you are than others in taking care of your health by good food and avoiding personal risks, but making you look like a paranoid pussy-wimp. Also, an essentially unphysical person trying to show off how they master daily details in administration, maintainance, housekeeping, etc

    ESTj, ESFj : behavior aiming at showing how original and creative you can be, but making too much out of obvious and trivial ideas.

  9. #9
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    The INTP agenda is correct. Knowledge though is our main focus. Love is a secondary objective.

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    Phoenix Incarnate Array Sentura's Avatar
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    would anyone be surprised if i told i discovered the subconscious function for ambition by myself before reading about this in the first place?

    i don't think this version is correct, however. it seems to be focused on end goals that can be attained to some degree, whereas the ambition i discovered creates a direction for you, not a limit.
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