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Thread: Socionics and hidden agendas

  1. #11
    veteran attention whore Array Jeffster's Avatar
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    To understand what?
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  2. #12
    Phoenix Incarnate Array Sentura's Avatar
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    how everything works; what makes everything tick. a good example of the mindset would be manifested in sylar from the heroes series.
    i hunt INXPs for bounty
    FUNCTION ORDER FOR THOSE THAT CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ENXP MEANS: Ne > Ni > Fi=Ti > *

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  3. #13
    veteran attention whore Array Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    how everything works; what makes everything tick. a good example of the mindset would be manifested in sylar from the heroes series.
    I don't care about that.

    And furthermore, I have no hidden agenda.
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  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentura View Post
    how everything works; what makes everything tick. a good example of the mindset would be manifested in sylar from the heroes series.
    I think that's quite accurate. But, I don't think that it's my "hidden" agenda. Pretty much everyone who knows me will tell you that I'm ridiculously curious and want to know the deep meaning of everything.
    All people see, but no one sees the same.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Array polikujm's Avatar
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    Can't you see that it is based on the structure of the socionics 6th function, yet Sergei Gannon vaguely attributes these to separate personality types? This guy seriously has no say in how I see socionics. I don't see the 6th function as his version of hidden agenda. All the guy is trying to do is create a new definition for the mobilizing function. I like the mobilizing function how it is. That whole term hidden agenda is vagueness swallowed and shit out.

    The main idea of the mobilizing function is in hope that your dual type will be original with it or transform it into something wacky and creative (since it's their creative function, duh.) If no one can see this just by looking at the structure of the elements, then sure. Go ahead and trust some noob like Sergei Gannon to explain it to you. Hidden agenda might fit the sound of this function, but when you read his explanation behind it, you see that he takes the wrong approach, and it makes you want to eat his shit just so people won't have to stare at it. You'd do it at all personal cost. Of course now I'm just fantasizing about eating shit again, but you get my point.

    I'd actually be one to assume another use for the mobilizing function, that one wouldn't have to call it just the mobilizing function, but not in this sense.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Array Quint's Avatar
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    To believe? What?
    Can somebody explain that?
    "Sometimes that shark looks right at ya. Right into your eyes. And the thing about a shark is he’s got lifeless eyes. Black eyes.Like a doll’s eyes. When he comes at ya, he doesn’t even seem to be livin’…’til he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over wide and then… then you hear that terrible high-pitched screamin’." - Quint, Jaws

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poser View Post
    I found this recently and couldn't find it discussed here.

    I know socionics is a little bit different than MBTI but I would have to say of the types that I know, it is pretty much spot on. What say you?

    Type and the hidden agenda
    Aight, bro, it goes like this. In MBTI we've got functions that go like this:

    (We'll use the ISTP as an example): Ti-Se-Ni-Fe-Te-Si-Ne-Fi
    So technically, the ISTP is a reverse ESTJ or a mirror ESTJ. Its functions mirror this type exactly except they're backwards. This would be the function order if you used all eight cognitive functions to type a person.

    So Fi is last and the most foreign to the user. Therefore it is buried in the subconscious and unable to be used. That doesn't mean it can't be used, just that it isn't used. You could say the second you reach the dividing mark between Fe and Te (in the diagram above) the functions become steeped in the unconscious. (No, subconscious and unconscious are not interchangeable terms.)

    You could think of these functions as the background tasks on the computer. The things that run in the background without you ever checking them. They run regardless if you want them to or not. Whereas the main four you have allow you to dissect and use them in a conscious way (deliberately, i.e.). You could also think of it like an iceberg if you like. The main four functions make up the top of the iceberg, and the rest make up the bottom.

    So to identify what their hidden agendas are, you just have to look at their last function. Their very last function. They're called hidden either because they're buried in the unconscious or because you don't know about them (as in, you won't acknowledge them in your conscious). They're not dangerous or evil. They're just not fulfilled yet.

    This by @snegledmaca is a good explanation:
    ENTp, ESTp : behavior aimed at showing how popular and liked by the crowd you are, but that is actually making you look like an ass.

    INFp, ISFp : unshakeable and stubborn defense of ideas and beliefs against all opposition, with unwillingness to even discuss the possibility of their not being correct

    INTp, ISTp : unshakeable and stubborn unwillingness to compromise on personal behavior and principles against all opposition in a social situation

    ESFp, ENFp : behavior aimed at showing how competent you are in handling practical and financial affairs, or in how much knowledge in a particular subject you have, but painfully focusing on non-essentials to the point made

    ISTj, ISFj : unshakeable belief that you know exactly what is going to happen in your life in a given situation, or precipitated action since you know that "now is the time to act", but ending up shooting your own foot in both cases

    ENTj, ENFj : behavior aimed at showing how successful, rich, or physically strong and brave and confrontational you are, when others can see you're none of them

    INTj, INFj : showing off how wiser you are than others in taking care of your health by good food and avoiding personal risks, but making you look like a paranoid pussy-wimp. Also, an essentially unphysical person trying to show off how they master daily details in administration, maintainance, housekeeping, etc

    ESTj, ESFj : behavior aiming at showing how original and creative you can be, but making too much out of obvious and trivial ideas.
    Let's go with INFJ. ENFPs are the opposite of this type. Si is their inferior. So therefore, an INFJs eighth function would be Si. Theoretically, of course. Taking care of your health is a classic example of using Si. Inferior Si is awful - if you don't know how to use it correctly, you could end up overestimating a lot of things.

    The best thing to do is memorize charts like this:

    ISFJ - Si-Fe-Ti-Ne > Se-Fi-Te-Ni
    OR Ne-Ti-Fe-Si > Ni-Te-Fi-Se

    This shows you how ISFJs are duals of INTJs. (And by duals I mean opposites, you know.) All you have to do is reverse the functions.

    You could also think of the eighth function as a type of animus. Whereas Jung or other theorists would call inf Ne in an ISFJ the animus since it is the lowest function and therefore the driving function of the first, Ni would be the super-animus since it's the very last and completely reverse of the aforementioned animus. Sort of like what an ISFJ might lack. Ne, and especially inferior, makes you paranoid about the future because you visualize all the different outcomes and can't pick one. Ni would calm that down. It would make you pick one. Even if it was wrong, it would still be one as opposed to like a hundred and one.

    What you posted about the descriptions is right, it's just very general. You just have to know how the functions operate in order to get it. For instance, let's take ISFJs and INFJs from your description.

    to understand
    Ni would make an ISFJ understand deeply, whereas Ne for an INFJ would make them understand in-depth. They are two different things. I've heard Intuition described as a pool of water, and INFJs search deeply, diving deeper and deeper until they find the answer. An ISFJ or Ne dom would search the surface of the water, going around and around in circles until they explored more or even all of the pool. Ne would give INFJs context. Understanding is worth nothing if it's floating out there in the void. Ni would give ISFJs something to stick to. A place to apply their understanding to - a purpose.

    You've gotta kinda take these metaphorically.

    As for one more example:

    ESTJs and ENTJs and
    to be loved
    This is just Fe and Fi. Fe wants to be loved. That is the definition of Fe. Fi users love themselves. They understand themselves. They are comfortable with themselves. Fe projects an atmosphere of warmth that's kind of like a radio tower - if you love, you will get love back. It's not that Fi users can't love, it's just that they don't love outwardly. It's like this, really. Fi users are selfish in that they can be inconsiderate of themselves. They work hard, almost into the ground. Fe users work to serve other people. If there's no people to serve, why should they work? That kind of thing.

    tl;dr we all want what we can't have.

  8. #18
    Dope& diamonds. Array Dyslexxie's Avatar
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    Interesting theory and I can see how some of it makes sense, although all of us probably have a varying degree of most of those needs. And I don't really think nature is as big of a determinant in what we identify as 'needs' for ourselves as much as is what we've been taught via our parents and family and the fears they've instilled in us.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Array erg's Avatar
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    These descriptions are based on the activation function (also called HA or "hidden agenda") of each type. The HA is something you are somewhat proficient in, but would like to be better at. Typically, one can use their HA at key moments as well (or better) than the ones that have it in the ego (main functions), but it is risky to do so because when you engage in it, you are disregarding your PoLR. It's like a secret weapon, or double-edged sword that must not be overused. As per model B I would describe them as follows:

    EII - LIE ---> To be healthy and powerful.
    LII - EIE ---> To feel pleasure and be in control.
    SLI - ILE ---> To love.
    LSE - ESI ---> To feel one with god.
    SLE - ILI ---> To be loved.
    ESE - LSI ---> To know.
    IEE - SEI ---> To be wealthy.
    SEE - IEI ---> To understand.

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